Topic: Mdina fish vase signature

[chilternhills]

I have a query from a collector about his Mdina vase. I am fairly sure the vase is by Mdina but I have some questions about the signature. It is clearly not Michael Harris, but could it be Eric Dobson or Joseph Said? There is what appears to be loop a bit like an S and therefore Said and the date 1972. I understand that Dobson and Said added dates, but it is not usual for Mdina pieces.

Thanks for your help.

Anton

[chopin-liszt]

I have images of confirmed Said and Dobson signatures.
However, they were confirmed by Ron Wheeler some time ago and I'm not sure that Marie, Vicente Boffo's daughter, has not since said something about these.
Here are the images anyway.
First, Said's then Dobson's.

[chilternhills]

It looks like Said's signature to me. The G in Glass is very similar in style and is not like Dobson's G. The 7 in the date is very like the 7 in Said's signature. And that loop in the middle of Said's signature is quite similar too.

[chopin-liszt]

I tend to look on the spikey ones as being Dobson's, but I think Marie said that there were a few folk who made the marks, so while we may think they are represented to be by either Joseph Said or Eric Dobson, the actual marks may have been made by several different folk.
I think the reality is that the best description might be to say they have an artist's mark, rather than a signature.

[chilternhills]

As I said, I wasn't just looking at the indecipherable scrawl at the bottom but also the characteristics of the other words and the date. I think these are a more reliable guide and are more consistent.

[chopin-liszt]

I suppose most folk know I don't really put much store in signatures and marks, they don't really interest me.
Just the glass itself does. 
I find the date to be the only informative thing - and the fact that it was only really major pieces that ended up being marked with something that looks like an artist's signature.

Loads of different folk at the factory made the marks. It wasn't just Said or Dobson. There really isn't any point in trying to do some sort of handwriting analysis.

[chilternhills]

To make a fish vase took a lot of skill and Said, as chief glass blower at Mdina in 1972, certainly had the skill. According to Mark Hill's book fish vases became squarer in shape after the Harris family left Malta in the summer of that year. This particular vase fits that changed shape. I must disagree: there is definitely a point in a bit of handwriting analysis here!

In my view signatures add to the history of a piece and gives appropriate recognition to the skill of the maker. But I am with you when a signature multiplies the selling price to a stupid degree. It is the piece that counts most to me too. The piece is the signature, as it were. But perhaps that is because we know their work well and sometimes the artists personally too. But what about, say, in 200 years time? The piece will still be appreciated, but what about the artist or designer? There has been so much frustrated head-scratching on this forum because unmarked pieces can't be identified.

[Patrick]

To make a fish vase took a lot of skill and Said, as chief glass blower at Mdina in 1972,

I think you will find that the glassblower with the most skill was Vicente Boffo who joined Mdina in mid 1970 and left sometime after 1975.

Cheers,

Patrick.

[chopin-liszt]

Joseph Said got very, very good at working glass very, very quickly - he's got an affinity with it.
I'm well aware that the shape is likely Said's, I'd never have mistaken it for a Harris piece and it lacks the finesse of Boffo.


I'm just saying that lots of different people at the factory scratched the Said and Dobson "signatures".
Not neccessarily Said or Dobson themselves, which is why any analysis of writing is pointless.
The other workers were trying to emulate the scrawls.

The mark really doesn't signify anything beyond giving the date, made at Mdina and considered an important enough art piece that it should look as if it was signed by an artist.

These pieces with more marks on the base, (a date and a scrawl) tend to be Fish vase, cubes, the great big two-tone strapped bottles and cut-ice Lollipops.

[WhatHo!]

Please read this previous post. Whilst Jim Munnelly was at Mdina all the pieces with signature were signed by Dobson or Marie. Said was not signing anything certainly up to August 1975 when Jim Munnelly left Mdina.
http://www.glassmessages.com/index.php/topic,61584.0.html