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Author Topic: Etling catalogue - is it out there?  (Read 1410 times)

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Offline Anne Tique

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Re: Etling catalogue - is it out there?
« Reply #10 on: September 26, 2017, 03:11:13 PM »
[Text in Green copied to new thread on re-use of moulds]

Interesting that the same models and patterns are edited under different names.

I don't know if I've mentioned it here before, probably did but I can't even remember where I've been last week, but I read a rapport about a meeting in the 30ies a while ago, of which Marius Sabino was part. He mentioned that something really had to be done to stop the 'copieurs de vitrine', people who copied items displayed in shop windows, by drawing the designs in a little notebook, while they stood outside on the pavement, 'admiring' the items. It was not mentioned how these copiers worked, whether they were hired or working for other houses or they just sold designs by going from door to door, so to speak and I can't remember at the moment, when copyright was introduced in France...

Offline marcus

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Re: Etling catalogue - is it out there?
« Reply #11 on: September 26, 2017, 03:27:18 PM »
[Text in Green copied to new thread on re-use of moulds]

It is surely more that just probable that as with today, that "named" glass factories such as Sabino and Lalique, that numerous designers produced their works. It is common knowledge that d'Avesn   for example designed a couple(?) of items whilst at Lalique, however Lalique purchased the copyright to all of d'Avesn's designs whilst under his employment and I can think of at least 18 patterns which d'Avesn wasn't credited for. He was more prolific than most in France during his working career and it still as yet unknown how many examples he produced not only as a freelance but also for other factories. His work, runs into many hundreds of different designs.  I'm also aware that he even designed at least one pattern produced for and by Val Saint Lambert, whilst he was still at Verlys.  I am not here to name & shame, however there is currently a very well known seller online that offers many modern-day replicas and fakes recently produced in former Czechoslovakia, and also currently has one of  "his" faked Etling statues (complete with moulded phoney signature) for sale for a ridiculous price. He has also purchased glass figurines by the relatively little-known Maurice Model and then had them re-produced with an Etling signature... One always has to be on guard when an unknown pattern suddenly appears and then many same examples quickly follow... So-called Hoffman Malachite glass is just one casualty as so too is Galle and Daum, for example. I for one, don't have anything against modern-day copies provided they are sold as such. After all, not many can afford to collect genuine Rene Lalique car mascots and so 'exact' copies of them are fine in my book at a small fraction in price, but to be knowingly duped by scoundrels like "him" on eBay is not only wrong but also ???

Offline marcus

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Re: Etling catalogue - is it out there?
« Reply #12 on: September 26, 2017, 03:41:03 PM »
Anne Tique - It is very difficult to obtain copyright on ones own artistic designs even today. I can also recall when I was lamp-working glass, an occasion when I just knew that a guy was watching me work in a way which told be he was a glass blower too. He purchased my finished piece and then started knocking-them-out at his own studios. There was little that could be done about it, however from that day whenever I produced a new design I would photograph it, place it into a sealed envelope and send it Recorded Delivery to myself & my solicitor where they remained sealed & dated, just in case any lawsuit needed to be taken. Forgeries though are a completely different story. "Most" serious collectors of Sabino's work and of course Lalique, can spot a forgery or fake from a mile away, and is quite often the case that the glass itself no matter how well a fake has been produced, that is the tell-tale sign.

Offline Lustrousstone

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Re: Etling catalogue - is it out there?
« Reply #13 on: September 26, 2017, 07:02:58 PM »
[Text in Green copied to new thread on re-use of moulds]

Modern Hoffman malachite glass items not copies. They are legitimate reissues based on original moulds and are sold as such. Unfortunately, this makes it difficult to know which is period and which is modern.

Reissues and long production periods have been around a long while. The Davidson 269 (blackberry) pattern was made for almost 70 years and Davidson bought and used many moulds from companies that went under.

Offline Anne Tique

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Re: Etling catalogue - is it out there?
« Reply #14 on: September 26, 2017, 07:38:40 PM »
Quote
I'm also aware that he even designed at least one pattern produced for and by Val Saint Lambert, whilst he was still at Verlys. 

Which one, please?

Offline marcus

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Re: Etling catalogue - is it out there?
« Reply #15 on: September 27, 2017, 09:06:11 PM »
Anne Tique - The only one that I know of (though I would assume that their could probably be others too???) is a 10" (approx.) "Tourbillons' pattern bowl. It's a darn shame, 'coz I lost the link on my old PC about one of the owners of Verlys, who at the time was 'in' with those at VSL (and/or) came to Verlys from VSL  at the same time when d'Avesn was at Verlys. I have had two examples of the bowl, one pink glass and the other in dark smoky-grey, both of which carried the P. DAVESN signature but with also "BELGIQUE" both marks in moulded relief. I have quite a collection of d'Avesn, none of which carry the Belgique mark. I never established if d'Avesn produced the bowls whilst at Verlys for VSL, or at the end/after his time with them, however although the smoky-grey glass was as is the Verlys 'Gris' glass colour-type, the pink glass was unlike any colour that I know of produced at/by Verlys. The bowl, is very deeply moulded, heavy and strikingly similar to his vase pattern of the same name for R Lalique. 

Offline marcus

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Re: Etling catalogue - is it out there?
« Reply #16 on: September 27, 2017, 09:17:04 PM »
Modern Hoffman - what I meant was, modern-day Hoffman malachite, being 'passed-off' as period, which I automatically discard... There are also folks that seem to dismiss modern-day Czech items & Red-Ashay copies, particularly their car mascots for example, however I don't personally, as why shouldn't they produce them? After all, Lalique still produces designs by their Master! As so do many other factories, and rightfully so too in my opinion. Desna, has won many awards for their mascots, and even their Victoire example (which is practically identical to Lalique, though are most usually frosted) was voted for an award by Lalique themselves. I know which of each I'd rather have, but then again a modern-day examples are a fraction of the cost. 

Offline Anne Tique

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Re: Etling catalogue - is it out there?
« Reply #17 on: September 27, 2017, 10:46:59 PM »
Anne Tique - The only one that I know of (though I would assume that their could probably be others too???) is a 10" (approx.) "Tourbillons' pattern bowl. It's a darn shame, 'coz I lost the link on my old PC about one of the owners of Verlys, who at the time was 'in' with those at VSL (and/or) came to Verlys from VSL  at the same time when d'Avesn was at Verlys. I have had two examples of the bowl, one pink glass and the other in dark smoky-grey, both of which carried the P. DAVESN signature but with also "BELGIQUE" both marks in moulded relief. I have quite a collection of d'Avesn, none of which carry the Belgique mark. I never established if d'Avesn produced the bowls whilst at Verlys for VSL, or at the end/after his time with them, however although the smoky-grey glass was as is the Verlys 'Gris' glass colour-type, the pink glass was unlike any colour that I know of produced at/by Verlys. The bowl, is very deeply moulded, heavy and strikingly similar to his vase pattern of the same name for R Lalique.

Are you sure it's VSL you're talking about? I haven't come in any of my books on VSL across d'Avesn. The only grey I can think of was used on the Mimosa vase, but the 'tourbillons' or curls, are much smaller. The Rosette bowl has larger ones, but wasn't available in grey and VSL never signed just Belgique. Don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to talk you out of the idea, but nowhere d'Avesn's mentioned in the history of VSL, I'm just trying to understand it because it's new to me. Have you got any images? What could be a possibility, now I'm thinking of it ... the Luxval range was set up by Charles Graffart and René Delvenne....d'Avesn/Delvenne ...Delvenne/d'Avesn ... if you say the names, just two letters are different ... [delvèn//davèn] ...see what I mean?

Offline Anne Tique

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Re: Etling catalogue - is it out there?
« Reply #18 on: September 27, 2017, 10:57:26 PM »
Was it this one?

Offline Mosquito

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Re: Etling catalogue - is it out there?
« Reply #19 on: September 28, 2017, 05:36:02 AM »
Don't know whether this is the one Marcus is referring to, but the two handled bowl shown as no. 21 in the 1935 Luxval catalogue is very similar to a Verlys pattern.

http://glas-musterbuch.de/uploads/tx_extendedshop/16_02.jpg
http://brocante-lestrouvaillesdecaroline.com/fr/1046-vasque.html

Regarding grey glass from VSL, I had a Luxval 'Myriam' jardiniere which looked grey in some lights, but showed a greenish tint when backlit.


 

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