No-one likes general adverts, and ours hadn't been updated for ages, so we're having a clear-out and a change round to make the new ones useful to you. These new adverts bring in a small amount to help pay for the board and keep it free for you to use, so please do use them whenever you can, Let our links help you find great books on glass or a new piece for your collection. Thank you for supporting the Board.

Author Topic: Glass tumbler 1646  (Read 2283 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Cathib

  • Members
  • **
  • Posts: 3
  • I'm new, please be gentle
    • UK
Glass tumbler 1646
« on: January 18, 2017, 12:40:23 PM »
I have a glas with the royal cypher on and the initials CR with 1646 on;  on the bottom of the glas is a trademark I presume, which is Rd 75175.
Could anyone tell me who made this and when please

Support the Glass Message Board by finding a book via book-seek.com


Offline luttonlodge

  • Members
  • **
  • Posts: 17
  • I'm new, please be gentle
    • English Glass
    • UK
Re: Glass tumbler 1646
« Reply #1 on: January 18, 2017, 01:35:59 PM »
The registration number 75175 was dated 9th June 1887 by W. P. & G Philips (sic) London, Glass Maker. Design is stated as a Shape of a jug in glass or china.
I am unfamliar with the initilals I assume the other number is the factory pattern number but I could be wrong.

Support the Glass Message Board by finding glass through glass-seek.com


Offline luttonlodge

  • Members
  • **
  • Posts: 17
  • I'm new, please be gentle
    • English Glass
    • UK
Re: Glass tumbler 1646
« Reply #2 on: January 18, 2017, 01:40:02 PM »
There is some advertising material regarding this manufacturer in the graces guide
http://www.gracesguide.co.uk/W._P._and_G._Phillips

Support the Glass Message Board by finding a book via book-seek.com


Offline Paul S.

  • Members
  • **
  • Posts: 9938
  • Gender: Male
Re: Glass tumbler 1646
« Reply #3 on: January 18, 2017, 02:25:25 PM »
hello Cathib  -  welcome to the GMB.

Regret I don't off-hand have a picture of the Board of Trade Registration No. 75175, but can acquire this when next I visit TNA at Kew.     People here always like to see a picture of your glass item  -  partly out of interest, and partly as we have a member who is compiling a very useful encyclopedia of pressed (mostly) glass designs together with their corresponding Registration Nos.                   
From around 1842 until early 1884 designs were Registered with the Board of Trade, and the finished product usually carried a diamond shaped lozenge which contained a combination of numbers and letter from which it's possible to decipher the maker and date of Registration.    After Feb. 1884 the diamond was dropped in favour of simply showing a four/five or six digit number similar to yours, and preceded, usually by the letters Rd. or Reg.
This No. isn't a trade mark........   trade marks are such things as small images of company names or invented devices/logos used by a maker to protect their designs.          Surprisingly, according to Ray Slack, only five pressed-glass manufacturers in the C19 used a trade mark on their glass  -  Sowerby being the best known probably, and their trade-mark is the peacocks head.

Regret I don't know what the 1646 means either.               Between about 1840 and the end of the C19 there were quite a few Registered Designs for pressed glass tumblers, which is possibly how your piece has been made, although alternatively it may have been blown  -  can you see any mould seams on the side of the tumbler? and does the underside of the base show any grinding or polishing of the glass where this might have been needed to finish the glass after manufacture.             

I'm unsure of what exactly you mean when you say royal cypher - do you mean simply VR??

This design may well have been both CLASS III and IV - glass and ceramics  -  it does happen on occasions.             The comment that this "Design is stated as a Shape of a jug in glass or china" is, on the face of it, at odds with your comment that this is a tumbler, so hoping you  will do your best to provide a photograph of your glass.            Of course if we had the Kew image that would help.
Sometimes a Registered design is for a type of decoration rather that the shape, and in the C19 some manufacturers were known to produce an entire service of shapes, each carrying some element of the original Registered design.

Finally, the date of any Registration doesn't mean that was the date the glass was made...............  it might be, but unlikely since most Registered designs had a shelf life which continued for some years, and some examples of Registrations are known to have been made many years after the date of Registration.   

Support the Glass Message Board by finding glass through glass-seek.com


Offline Cathib

  • Members
  • **
  • Posts: 3
  • I'm new, please be gentle
    • UK
Re: Glass tumbler 1646
« Reply #4 on: January 18, 2017, 06:06:03 PM »
Thank you for you reply.   Since then we have found a website that shows us the glass and a bit of history,  it seems the glass I have has been cut down at some point in its life.
www.antiquecolouredglass.info/British%20Glass.htm
I have tried to upload a picture but the file is too large will try again


Support the Glass Message Board by finding a book via book-seek.com


Offline Paul S.

  • Members
  • **
  • Posts: 9938
  • Gender: Male
Re: Glass tumbler 1646
« Reply #5 on: January 18, 2017, 06:57:22 PM »
I may well have misunderstood the text accompanying the left hand image in your link - which seems to be suggesting that Registration 75175 "refers to shape only".
Registrations were given to protect either a shape or, less frequently, a decorative pattern - either pressed or cut.        From what I can see in the Kew image on the right side, it appears that Rd. 75175 covers both the leather bottle shape and the standard water jug shape - plus of course the tumblers  -   all of which would suggest that 75175 was issued to protect the engraved decoration, rather than any particular shape.
These items, together with the engraving, appear to represent commemorative pieces.

You don't explain why you consider your tumbler has been cut down, so would appreciate some information please - and would also ask if you can explain how the Rd. is shown on the tumbler  -  is it in relief or is it written on paper only, or perhaps engraved into the base?                Your link gives a height of 9.25", which presumably is for the glass copy of the leather jug  -  am sure this would not be for the tumblers.

So that the Board can save and use the Kew image of the original factory photo (sepia by the looks of it), I will visit TNA in the coming days and take a photograph that can be watermarked and kept in the GMB archives. :)

Support the Glass Message Board by finding glass through glass-seek.com


Offline Anne

  • GMB Tech Support Manager & "Board (never bored) Dame"
  • Global Moderator
  • Members
  • *
  • Posts: 14600
  • Gender: Female
  • I has a stick to poke the server with yes!
    • Glass trinket sets
    • Cumbria England
    • My Glass Collection
Re: Glass tumbler 1646
« Reply #6 on: January 18, 2017, 08:20:18 PM »
Cathib, welcome to the board. If you can't manage to resize the image please take a look at our help and howto topic for images here: http://www.glassmessages.com/index.php/topic,34093.0.html - if you still can't get it small enough feel free to email me copies to glass AT yobunny.co.uk (change AT to @ and close up the spaces).
Cheers! Anne, da tekniqual wizzerd
~ Glass Trinket Sets ~ GlassLinks ~ GlasSpeak ~ GlassGallery 
 ~  Glassoholic Blog ~ Glassoholic Gallery ~

Support the Glass Message Board by finding a book via book-seek.com


Offline Cathib

  • Members
  • **
  • Posts: 3
  • I'm new, please be gentle
    • UK
Re: Glass tumbler 1646
« Reply #7 on: January 21, 2017, 10:55:56 AM »
Hi  Here is a picture of the glass, I think it has been cut down because the very top of the crown appears to be missing

Support the Glass Message Board by finding glass through glass-seek.com


Offline Paul S.

  • Members
  • **
  • Posts: 9938
  • Gender: Male
Re: Glass tumbler 1646
« Reply #8 on: January 21, 2017, 11:43:28 AM »
yes, it does appear to have shrunk in height.           Another possible indicator of that fact might be that the top rim will show as having been ground flat, and possibly slightly bevelled, rather than the original fire polished 'rounded' profile. 

Bit of a shame since I'd imagine this is a less than common item and this will have almost certainly reduced its commercial value.     Glad to see you finally managed to post a good picture. :)
 

Support the Glass Message Board by finding a book via book-seek.com


Offline ju1i3

  • Members
  • **
  • Posts: 316
    • London
    • Hyacinth Vases
Re: Glass tumbler 1646
« Reply #9 on: January 21, 2017, 04:21:18 PM »
I'm fascinated that in the 1880's a glass manufacturer would produce something to commemorate Charles surrendering to the Scots in 1646 and the end of (only) the first English Civil War.
Julie

Support the Glass Message Board by finding glass through glass-seek.com


 

SMF spam blocked by CleanTalk
Visit the Glass Encyclopedia
link to glass encyclopedia
Visit the Online Glass Museum
link to glass museum


This website is provided by Angela Bowey, PO Box 113, Paihia 0247, New Zealand