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Author Topic: 1853 L'Eglise Baccarat found in cornerstone of church  (Read 568 times)

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Offline gleaming

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Re: 1853 L'Eglise Baccarat found in cornerstone of church
« Reply #10 on: September 16, 2017, 04:29:19 PM »
Nice!  Thanks so much for posting the 1967 "Church" paperweight!   

We are just going to have to find out what happened to the 1853 "Church" paperweight ... maybe they put it back into the cornerstone of the restored church ...

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Offline paperweights

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Re: 1853 L'Eglise Baccarat found in cornerstone of church
« Reply #11 on: September 16, 2017, 05:52:00 PM »
The first "reproduction memorial" of the "Church P/W" was done by Baccarat in 1967 here is photo of one from our collection, 3.33" diameter, 2.47" height, weight 28.44 oz.  They later on, in 1973 followed it up with a second batch of memorial weights.

The Baccarat logo is etched into the base along with a 1967 date cane in the close pack. The canes include all the signs of the zodiac – they did this so they would not be confused with their antique counterparts.



This information is not correct.  The first modern reproduction was done in 1958, not 1967 as stated above.  The 1958 version had no signs of the zodiac only a large "8".  After dealers and collectors complained, the subsequent years had signs of the zodiac.  This was repeated for quite a few years.  Then in 2001 they made a version without signs of the zodiac, but having gridel figures instead, as if to prove that they could.  The 2001 weight contained a double date, 2001 and 1953.  There is also a special 200th anniversary version dated 1764-1964.  Dunlop lists 1958 and 1959, plus other years.
 
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Offline tropdevin

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Re: 1853 L'Eglise Baccarat found in cornerstone of church
« Reply #12 on: September 16, 2017, 08:20:02 PM »
***

I hate to rain on anyone's parade...but most of this stuff about 'inspiration' is complete nonsense (probably inspired by the self publicity of Jokelson).   There was never any gap in paperweight production. Baccarat were making paperweights (admittedly in small numbers) until the late 1930s.  They started again post war (as did Saint-Louis) when someone( Jokelson) promised to take several hundred a year from them, in return for sole dealer rights in the USA. Throughout this period, Murano, Walsh Walsh, Whitefriars, China, Ysart, Kaziun, and many others were making paperweights. Let's get real...

Alan
Alan  (The Paperweight People  http://www.pwts.co.uk)

"There are two rules for ultimate success in life. Number 1: Never tell everything you know."

The comments in this posting reflect the opinion of the author, Alan Thornton, and not that of the owners, administrators or moderators of this board. Comments are copyright Alan Thornton.

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Offline gleaming

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Re: 1853 L'Eglise Baccarat found in cornerstone of church
« Reply #13 on: September 16, 2017, 08:44:37 PM »
Well, this evolution is a fascinating story all-round with a little legend thrown in as well!  Thanks to everyone for all this good information.  Does anyone have a photo of the 1958 production with the 8, and a photo of the 2001 paperweight with the gridel figures instead of the zodiac?  Thanks again for the great information!

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Offline paperweights

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Re: 1853 L'Eglise Baccarat found in cornerstone of church
« Reply #14 on: September 17, 2017, 02:02:03 AM »
I own all three weights (1958, 1964, and 2001) that I referred to.  I will post pictures when I get some free time.  They can all be found on the web in larger formats. 

But Alan's comment about Baccarat production post WWII and before the Jokelson period has me perplexed because the statement is too general, mixing in other makers.  Baccarat made weights more or less continuously until about 1930.  But after that Baccarat stopped and did not resume until 1953.  I agree that other companies did continue to make paperweights during that period.

According to Dunlop's book on Baccarat, they made "a few simple millefiori weights" in 1946.  This sounds like an effort to reclaim and transfer knowledge that would otherwise have been lost - not real production.  Nothing more happened (per Dunlop) until 1952 when Jokelson approached the factory with the idea of making sulphide paperweights, which were released starting in 1953.  The discovery of the "Church" weight provided additional encouragement.  Baccarat invested considerable effort and manpower into relearning the techniques - some millefiori weights were made in 1957, the first nine closepacks were also made in 1957 and dated 1957.  But there was no continuous production of weights at Baccarat in the years 1930 to 1952 that I have heard of.  Alan Thornton - perhaps you can provide some references. 
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Offline gleaming

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Re: 1853 L'Eglise Baccarat found in cornerstone of church
« Reply #15 on: September 17, 2017, 03:13:49 AM »
This is all great information.  I am sure that everyone would love to see the three Baccarat paperweights from 1958, 1964, and 2001 when you have a chance to post them.  Thanks!

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Offline gleaming

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Re: 1853 L'Eglise Baccarat found in cornerstone of church
« Reply #16 on: September 20, 2017, 12:37:33 AM »
Here is a neat You Tube video from the Corning Glass Museum:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h_lte_XGYzg

According to the video the 1853 Baccarat close-pack paperweight in the Corning Glass collection is one of only two known with that date ... the other one being the 1853 L'Eglise Baccarat found in the cornerstone of the church.   

(The interesting video demonstrates making millefiori paperweights at the Baccarat factory and shows many of the other paperweights in the Corning collection, including the magnificent, huge 1851 Clichy paperweight that was exhibited at first World's Fair at London's Crystal Palace.  Demonstrations of lamp work and other techniques are also shown.)

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Offline gleaming

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Re: 1853 L'Eglise Baccarat found in cornerstone of church
« Reply #17 on: October 04, 2017, 08:09:28 PM »
One of the wonderful resourceful researchers, Paul Chasse, at the Corning Museum of Glass went to a great deal of trouble to research and respond to my inquiry regarding the current location of the 1853 L'Eglise Baccarat paperweight. He discovered that in 1995 it was in the Baccarat museum.  (Coincidentally he had been following the discussion on the Glass Message Board ...) I have omitted the great photos and articles that he attached to his response since I am not sure if they would meet the posting copyright rules for this message board.

From Paul Chasse at the Corning Museum of Glass:

Thank you for the question! The story of the discovered weight is quite ubiquitous; however the current location is not as much so. I did find in an article in the periodical American Flint that the weight was indeed in the Baccarat museum in Paris in 1995 (it was at this time that is was loaned to the U.S for a short time). I am assuming that it is back in the Paris Baccarat Museum currently... I have scanned and attached the article from the 1995 American Flint July Issue it the second attachment.

It appears that after the discovery of the church weight in 1953 there was short revival at Baccarat in the production of sulphide mIlliflori paperweights. I have scanned and attached some pages from the text Baccarat Paperweights: Two centuries of beauty by Paul H. Dunlop that has some information on the church weight along with some close up color pics (you were interested in color photos this is the first attachment)

Yes, the story is the weight was made by Martin Kayser, and placed in the cornerstone of the Church in Baccarat France. the church was bombed in 1944 and the paperweight was still intact as the church was being restored. This story is in many of the Baccarat resources here but the name of the church and the location of the original weight is not. All I found was the same article in two different periodicals that mention the location and nothing online.

I have sent a message to the Baccarat Museum and the  Baccarat Company. I not sure if I will hear back from them but you could try to do the same I guess and see if doubling our efforts will help.

I have also emailed L.H. Selman the paperweight experts and asked them.

Hopefully I will hear back from someone to solidify the current location, but I think the Baccarat Museum looks like the most likely place. I will keep looking for an answer just wanted to update you with where I am at so far.

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Offline gleaming

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Re: 1853 L'Eglise Baccarat found in cornerstone of church
« Reply #18 on: October 05, 2017, 06:52:31 PM »
The very resourceful and persistent researcher at the Corning Museum of Glass, Paul Chasse,  contacted Selman paperweights and today provided additional information regarding the current location of the 1853 L'Eglise Baccarat paperweight:

I did hear back from one of the major paperweight companies I asked, Selman. They confirmed that the weight is in the Baccarat Museum and that there may be a different date than popularly that it was discovered. Here is her response to me below copied and pasted:


Hello Paul,

It is such an interesting story. There are some conflicting dates on when the Church paperweight was really discovered, and it seems to be a topic of conversation right now, as some say it was discovered on Oct. 3rd 1951. If so, the anniversary would have been yesterday.

As far as I'm aware, the original 1853 Church Weight is currently in the collection of the Baccarat Museum, although I do not believe it's on display.

I hope that this helps! Please let me know if there is anything else I can assist with.

Kindly,
Molly



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