No-one likes general adverts, and ours hadn't been updated for ages, so we're having a clear-out and a change round to make the new ones useful to you. These new adverts bring in a small amount to help pay for the board and keep it free for you to use, so please do use them whenever you can, Let our links help you find great books on glass or a new piece for your collection. Thank you for supporting the Board.

Author Topic: Birmingham glass works - Frank and anyone else interested :)  (Read 872 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline flying free

  • Members
  • **
  • Posts: 9835
    • UK
Birmingham glass works - Frank and anyone else interested :)
« on: September 24, 2013, 11:35:35 PM »
I came across this forum searching for something else and thought some of you may be interested in the information posted in it.  I've not read it all and I don't know if the information has been posted anywhere else on here but I couldn't find it.
http://birminghamhistory.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=34334&page=3
m

Offline David E

  • Author
  • Members
  • ***
  • Posts: 3908
    • Heart of the Country, England
    • ChanceGlass.net
Re: Birmingham glass works - Frank and anyone else interested :)
« Reply #1 on: September 25, 2013, 10:26:00 PM »
Thanks for this M. I was aware of the Aston Glassworks - this covers part of my research into Birmingham glasshouses, of which there were many. The story starts about 1762 - about 150 years before Stourbridge.
David
► Chance Additions ◄
The 2nd volume of the domestic glassware of Chance Brothers
Contact ► Cortex Design ◄ to order any book

Offline flying free

  • Members
  • **
  • Posts: 9835
    • UK
Re: Birmingham glass works - Frank and anyone else interested :)
« Reply #2 on: September 25, 2013, 10:51:41 PM »
Hi David :)
having had a brief read your dating is right in how early it was  -  it seems it started in 1757 when Mayer Oppenheim's glassworks  was established at 94 Snow Hill.  It says he had a  'patent for the manufacture of red transparent glass in 1755'.

I need a few hours to get round to reading it totally and doing a bit of thinking  - I can never read these things without dragging the books out and doing comparisons on info etc :)
m

Offline David E

  • Author
  • Members
  • ***
  • Posts: 3908
    • Heart of the Country, England
    • ChanceGlass.net
Re: Birmingham glass works - Frank and anyone else interested :)
« Reply #3 on: September 28, 2013, 10:21:27 AM »
Quote from: ^above^
The story starts about 1762 - about 150 years before Stourbridge.

Oops, it should read 150 years after Stourbridge - mods, feel free to correct.

The manufacture of ruby glass has a quite interesting history. It appears that the Romans did make ruby glass, but it was Andreas Cassius, in 1676 who rediscovered it, so Mayer Oppenheim "re-invented" it in 1755 when the patent was granted by George III. However, it appears the art must have been lost to the UK (or perhaps the formula wasn't that good), as it wasn't until c.1850 (I'll have to find the exact date) when it is recorded that George Bontemps rediscovered it, whilst the manager of the Coloured & Ornamental Department at Chance Brothers. I'm not sure if this applies to other parts of the world, or just the UK, as I would begin to dispute the statement below (in purple).

Quote from: EncyclopŠdia Britannica, Inc.
ruby glass, deep-red glass deriving its colour from gold chloride. Originally known in the ancient world, its rediscovery was long sought by European alchemists and glassmakers, who believed it had curative properties. A Hamburg physician, Andreas Cassius, in 1676 reported his discovery of the red colouring properties of a solution of gold chloride, subsequently called purple of Cassius. Ruby glass was produced c. 1679 by a Potsdam chemist and glass technologist named Johann Kunckel von L÷wenstern, who kept the recipe a secret. The difficulty in producing this colour lay in the fact that the glass at first appears gray and turns red only on reheating. This secret was rediscovered in the glassworks at Ehrenfeld at the end of the 19th century. Meanwhile, Bohemian glassmakers produced a ruby shade using copper, and glassware flashed with a thin ruby-glass casing became a characteristic 19th-century Bohemian product.

Not sure if anyone can add anything to this, but I'm all ears!  :)

Mods: Could/Should this (the ruby part) be split off as a separate topic (e.g. The History of Ruby Glass) in the Glass section?
David
► Chance Additions ◄
The 2nd volume of the domestic glassware of Chance Brothers
Contact ► Cortex Design ◄ to order any book

Offline flying free

  • Members
  • **
  • Posts: 9835
    • UK
Re: Birmingham glass works - Frank and anyone else interested :)
« Reply #4 on: September 28, 2013, 10:37:22 AM »
Funnily enough that's exactly the bit I picked up on... hence my saying I needed to look at books before commenting further.
I thought red glass was 'invented' in Bohemia, so I thought I ought to pick up some books and have a reread.
m

Offline flying free

  • Members
  • **
  • Posts: 9835
    • UK
Re: Birmingham glass works - Frank and anyone else interested :)
« Reply #5 on: June 06, 2016, 11:31:24 PM »
I completely forgot about this thread but came across a research document that mentioned Mayer Oppenheim and his patent for gold-ruby glass
I came across this thread again searching his name because this evening I also found this mention:
http://historywm.com/wp-content/uploads/issues/issue4/files/res/pages/page_0034.swf

of Mayer Oppenheim, the first glassworks in Birmingham 'established in 1757 and out of use by 1780/81.'

with regards the gold-ruby glass patent
Please also see the information on what has become a very long thread about whether or not gold-ruby glass was produced between 1740 ish and c.1835
http://www.glassmessages.com/index.php/topic,62698.msg351931.html#msg351931

I will link this thread to that as well.

m


Offline flying free

  • Members
  • **
  • Posts: 9835
    • UK
Re: Birmingham glass works - Frank and anyone else interested :)
« Reply #6 on: November 03, 2017, 11:12:50 AM »
David, I'm looking for some help please.

Is there any evidence of Chance producing vases or table glass in c.1850? when Bontemps was there? Were they making handblown glass or flat glass only?
And did they use lead crystal or not?


Thanks for any help which is much appreciated.
m

Offline David E

  • Author
  • Members
  • ***
  • Posts: 3908
    • Heart of the Country, England
    • ChanceGlass.net
Re: Birmingham glass works - Frank and anyone else interested :)
« Reply #7 on: November 14, 2017, 03:22:46 PM »
Sorry for the delay M, but I rarely come onto GMB now :/ Sometimes better to nudge me or email me directly.

However, I have no information on Chance Brothers producing tableware that early. Georges Bontemps was employed there from 1848 but he knew Lucas Chance going way back into the 1820s. The first tableware was produced in the early 1920s in very small amounts for Heal's department store.

Flat glass was its staple product and the only blown glass made there to the best of my knowledge was sheet glass and blown plate. As for true lead crystal (>24%) then no. Much later, but not in the c.1850s. They did produce glass blocks for the nuclear industry that contained something like 60% lead!

I hope that helps (but probably not in the way you were hoping for).
David
► Chance Additions ◄
The 2nd volume of the domestic glassware of Chance Brothers
Contact ► Cortex Design ◄ to order any book

Offline flying free

  • Members
  • **
  • Posts: 9835
    • UK
Re: Birmingham glass works - Frank and anyone else interested :)
« Reply #8 on: November 14, 2017, 04:23:50 PM »
No it's a good help David.  Thank you for coming back to me.

m

Offline flying free

  • Members
  • **
  • Posts: 9835
    • UK
Re: Birmingham glass works - Frank and anyone else interested :)
« Reply #9 on: Yesterday at 11:28:59 PM »
Mayer Oppenheim's patent for 'Making red transparent glass' is listed here as patent number 707  on 28th November 1755 .

It is on page 323 in this link to google books:

https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=iArKCvphWicC&pg=PA325&dq=frederick+hale+thompson+George+Foord&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwijy6emlpveAhXmKsAKHVB8D3cQ6AEIJzAA#v=onepage&q=Pellatt&f=false


and again on the same page and link for:  20th October 1770, patent number 969, to Mayer Oppenheim for 'Making opaque or red glass'


 

SMF spam blocked by CleanTalk
Look for glass on
ebay.co.uk
Visit the Glass Encyclopedia
link to glass encyclopedia
Look for glass on
ebay.com (us)
Visit the Online Glass Museum
link to glass museum


This website is provided by Angela Bowey, PO Box 113, Paihia 0247, New Zealand