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Author Topic: E.Varnish mercury glass with embossed seal, circa 1849  (Read 42718 times)

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Re: E.Varnish mercury glass with embossed seal, circa 1849
« Reply #330 on: August 11, 2019, 07:05:06 PM »
I can't remember if I have already mentioned this on the court case, but it appears The Spectator magazine were also sceptical about the innocence of Mr Mellish:

http://archive.spectator.co.uk/article/10th-april-1852/5/t4t-alttruputio


'There was a remarkable trial at the Central Criminal Court, on Wed- nesday. Some time since, Thomas Robert Mellish and James Douglas were convicted of forging a receipt, to defraud their employer, Mr. Thompson. Mellish managed a glass-silvering business for Mr. Thompson ; Douglas was a clerk appointed by Mellish. There was no doubt that many work- men's receipts had the figures altered, whereby Mr. Thompson was defrauded of the difference, as the larger amount was charged in the books. At the trial, the Jury thought both prisoners had been engaged in the crime. After sentence of transportation had been passed, Douglas told the Ordinary of Newgate that Mellish was innocent ; he alone was guilty. Representations were made to the Home Office, and a trial on another in- dictment was thought advisable. On Wednesday, Douglas pleaded guilty to the case of forgery then brought before the Jury. He was examined as a witness ; and stated that he was the culprit, while Mellish had not at all participated in or known of his frauds. On the other hand, cross-ex- amination, and witnesses for the prosecution, cast some suspicion on this testimony. Mellish seems to have been a good friend to Douglas : he had known him fourteen years. The Jury consulted for half an hour, and then gave a verdict of " Not Guilty ' ; the Foreman adding, that they gave the prisoner " the benefit of a very great doubt." So one supposes that the first sentence on the first trial will probably be carried out.'

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Re: E.Varnish mercury glass with embossed seal, circa 1849
« Reply #331 on: August 11, 2019, 08:43:05 PM »
Topic:  Where was the glass made?

Was it made at Powell's in London or was it made at M. Power in France?


In reply #303 (see quote below) I mentioned a M. Power and that he seemed to be the later successor to M. Tourasse who had the French patent for silvering glass from Mr Drayton.  I wasn't sure who M. Power was.

From a tiny snippet of information from a publication in 1853 called Cosmos I have found this (google translate the snippet info):

'It has been a long time since the director of Mr. Power's glass silvering workshops, rue de Penthièvre, 34, showed us ...'  and there the 'snippet' info runs out unfortunately.

However it probably explains why it says in the article I linked to on post #303 that M. Power was able to
silver 'Phares, globes, miroires concaves et convexes, vases de fantaisie, verre graves, plaques de porte etc'

He operated a glass silvering atelier.

So ... is it possible that when the Art Union Journal reported that 'most of the glass comes from Powell' it might have been a mishearing and that most of the glass came from a ' M. Power' in France ?  Longshot maybe, but worth mentioning.


Admittedly, in the court case 1., Varnish says he and Mellish went to France to purchase glass but does mention that they purchased less glass there than they did from Powell's:  '..purchases of glass abroad were very small in comparison of purchases of Messrs. Powell'.



Possible Bingo ?  A French person involved in this process called a M. Power

Repertoire de Pharmacie - July 1850

This appears to me to be a French report of how Mr Drayton worked with M. Tourasse to make the silvering work in practise on articles of glass (maybe how to silver the backs of looking glasses). 
On page 28 it talks about this and
it goes on to say (I think(?) - my French is non-existent), that M. Tourasse had a successor working on this and the successor was a  M. Power (that is VERY close to hearing Mr Powell isn't it?)

On page 29   I think it says that M. Power had more success with this than M. Tourasse and was able to silver 'Phares, globes, miroires concaves et convexes, vases de fantaisie, verre graves, plaques de porte etc'

Can anyone read French well enough to know if I have understood this ok?

https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=NPIKAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA28&dq=M+tourasse+miroir&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjR6ZHAycnjAhVGa8AKHdNnDWkQ6AEIPzAD#v=onepage&q=M%20tourasse%20miroir&f=false

Obviously this may be pure coincidence.  And also M. Power may have just been a chemist so his ability to silver glass may have been his own 'business' and nothing to do with making and providing glass to Mr Drayton or Hale Thomson.  But the connection might be interesting/pertinent in future in terms of who made the glass.




And in this report I think it says that in July 1850 two silvered glass globes were places in the Tuileries gardens (made in France?):
page 154
 https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=0HtCAAAAcAAJ&pg=PA154&dq=M.Power++argent+Drayton&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwj1gfeQ0cnjAhWSShUIHeejCyAQ6AEIRDAE#v=onepage&q=M.Power%20%20argent%20Drayton&f=false

Aah - not Bingo perhaps
This is an English report - however it says that Mr Drayton transferred the French patent to M. Tourasse.
https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=K0sEAAAAQAAJ&pg=PA207&dq=M.Power++M.+Tourasse&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwj6y_WR1MnjAhXjQkEAHf6LCRcQ6AEIOjAD#v=onepage&q=M.Power%20%20M.%20Tourasse&f=false

What is does show is a level of co-working between France and England on this silvering process.
And therefore perhaps the ability to procure French glass?

Possible Bingo ?  A French person involved in this process called a M. Power

Repertoire de Pharmacie - July 1850

This appears to me to be a French report of how Mr Drayton worked with M. Tourasse to make the silvering work in practise on articles of glass (maybe how to silver the backs of looking glasses). 
On page 28 it talks about this and
it goes on to say (I think(?) - my French is non-existent), that M. Tourasse had a successor working on this and the successor was a  M. Power (that is VERY close to hearing Mr Powell isn't it?)

On page 29   I think it says that M. Power had more success with this than M. Tourasse and was able to silver 'Phares, globes, miroires concaves et convexes, vases de fantaisie, verre graves, plaques de porte etc'

Can anyone read French well enough to know if I have understood this ok?

https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=NPIKAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA28&dq=M+tourasse+miroir&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjR6ZHAycnjAhVGa8AKHdNnDWkQ6AEIPzAD#v=onepage&q=M%20tourasse%20miroir&f=false

Obviously this may be pure coincidence.  And also M. Power may have just been a chemist so his ability to silver glass may have been his own 'business' and nothing to do with making and providing glass to Mr Drayton or Hale Thomson.  But the connection might be interesting/pertinent in future in terms of who made the glass.




And in this report I think it says that in July 1850 two silvered glass globes were places in the Tuileries gardens (made in France?):
page 154
 https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=0HtCAAAAcAAJ&pg=PA154&dq=M.Power++argent+Drayton&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwj1gfeQ0cnjAhWSShUIHeejCyAQ6AEIRDAE#v=onepage&q=M.Power%20%20argent%20Drayton&f=false

Aah - not Bingo perhaps
This is an English report - however it says that Mr Drayton transferred the French patent to M. Tourasse.
https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=K0sEAAAAQAAJ&pg=PA207&dq=M.Power++M.+Tourasse&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwj6y_WR1MnjAhXjQkEAHf6LCRcQ6AEIOjAD#v=onepage&q=M.Power%20%20M.%20Tourasse&f=false

What is does show is a level of co-working between France and England on this silvering process.
And therefore perhaps the ability to procure French glass?


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Re: E.Varnish mercury glass with embossed seal, circa 1849
« Reply #332 on: August 11, 2019, 09:55:54 PM »
Two things re Powell & Co ruby glass question.

a) I asked a question on another thread about any ruby glass seen from Powell & Co/Sons or Whitefriars in the 19th century and Catshome has replied that there may have been an award for something in the 1860s and use of green and red leaves on a chandelier c1865, but no other information for anything prior to that.

https://www.glassmessages.com/index.php/topic,68519.msg381180.html#msg381180




b) Re the goblets and vases shapes, on the 20th Century Glass site here
https://www.20thcenturyglass.com/glass_encyclopedia/british_glass/whitefriars_glass/whitefriarsglass_home.htm
it gives some information re Whitefriars quoting Lesley Jackson 20th Century Factory Glass as a source and says the following:

'James Powell bought a glass factory in 1834, in the Whitefriars area of London, back then the glassworks was called James Powell & Sons. James' three sons, Arthur Powell, Nathanael Powell and John Powell, ran the factory from 1840. Originally the company made stained glass, and scientific and industrial glass. Whitefriars began making glass tableware during the 1860's.' (my underlining)



Here on wiki it says:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Powell_and_Sons

'Later Victorian period
During the latter part of the nineteenth century, the firm formed a close association with leading architects and designers such as T G Jackson, Edward Burne-Jones, William De Morgan and James Doyle. Whitefriars produced the glass that Philip Webb used in his designs for William Morris. The firm’s production diversified in the 1850s to include domestic table glass after supplying the glassware for William Morris's Red House.'




Red House was co designed in 1859 and completed in 1860:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_House,_Bexleyheath
'Red House is a significant Arts and Crafts building located in the town of Bexleyheath in Southeast London, England. Co-designed in 1859 by the architect Philip Webb and the designer William Morris, it was created to serve as a family home for the latter, with construction being completed in 1860.'




The implication is that they were not making 'fancy' glass goblets and vases etc during the late 1840s and into 1850/51?



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Re: E.Varnish mercury glass with embossed seal, circa 1849
« Reply #333 on: August 12, 2019, 11:27:34 AM »
Professor Faraday's lecture reported in April 1846 - used DOUBLE WALLED glass to show the effect of Drayton's silvering process.

He used two sheets of glass stood vertically in a frame back to back and almost touching and poured the silver solution between them.
He then demonstrated that people on both sides of the lecture hall could see firstly through the two panes of glass to each other, then as the silvering solution worked, the people on both sides could then only see their own reflection.

He also used glass tubes and silvered the inside of the tube (maybe the kind of thing Powell's was making?)

This was in 1846.  So the knowledge that the silvered inside of a glass was necessary was already known then.
I need to have another look at Hale Thomson's patent as iirc he talked about 'hermetically' sealing the silver in the glass.

The description of how he demonstrated the two panes of glass is in brackets on the right hand column of the link page and starts about a third of the way down the page.


London Medical Gazette: Or, Journal of Practical Medicine, Volume 37, Part 2  (1846)
page 714

https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=b5CVBDh2h-QC&pg=PA714&dq=double+silvered+glass+drayton&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwi4lq3Mmv3jAhWUoFwKHQUGBngQ6AEIKDAA#v=onepage&q=double%20silvered%20glass%20drayton&f=false




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Re: E.Varnish mercury glass with embossed seal, circa 1849
« Reply #334 on: August 13, 2019, 05:02:10 PM »
an 1850 engraving from the Illustrated London News, showing the room of the York Banquet and the silvered glass globes.
Difficult to see details but the gigantic silvered globes on figues of Atlas and Eagles can be seen on the tables.

It was arranged so the diners could see the royal table at the head.  Unfortunately this means that the goblets cannot really be seen in the engraving.

Page 186 of this link:

https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=wTwQDgAAQBAJ&pg=PT184&dq=soyer+silvered+glass+goblet+york+banquet&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwip0-iuqIDkAhW5VBUIHbKGB-cQ6AEIKDAA#v=onepage&q=soyer%20silvered%20glass%20goblet%20york%20banquet&f=false

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Re: E.Varnish mercury glass with embossed seal, circa 1849
« Reply #335 on: August 14, 2019, 01:17:40 PM »
Managed to find a picture of the glass chandelier ( James Powell & Sons)with some ruby glass on it, but can't find it on th e main V&A site:

http://media.vam.ac.uk/media/thira/collection_images/2006AT/2006AT4404.jpg

http://va.goodformandspectacle.com/things/2398


The only other piece I could find in red glass is a mold blown bell 1879 that is in copyright so pic not available except of a close up of the mold of the glass and colour:

http://collections.vam.ac.uk/item/O4938/bell-sheridan-onslow-blackhall/



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Re: E.Varnish mercury glass with embossed seal, circa 1849
« Reply #336 on: August 14, 2019, 03:05:45 PM »
I'm looking closely at this Bacchus decanter in the V&A and I see a thick layer of clear glass on the neck over the ruby underlayer/innerlayer, so presumably this was ruby cased clear and then cased opaque white glass before being cut.

http://collections.vam.ac.uk/item/O326654/decanter-and-stopper-george-bacchus-and/

The photograph is interesting.  The ruby neck has a strange orange cast to it. Probably the fact it's been photographed against a black background I guess.
However, I noted it because I 'd noticed a strange orange cast on a ruby and clear goblet I own and when  I investigated further found it was made at St Louis.  Similar time frame to this decanter as well.


I did a little experiment with all the red and pink glass bits I have.  I wrapped some tin foil around the inner of the pieces or laid it behind the piece in the case of my red Clichy plate.
The only piece where the colour reflects and looks like the op's red goblet is on a piece of Whitefriars - a ruby jug 20th century.  So I'm guessing the red needed to be a true red to show the silvered effect of the op's and the other red one I linked to on Ebay. i.e.  Not pink, not pinky red or streaky red, but a good true red glass.

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Re: E.Varnish mercury glass with embossed seal, circa 1849
« Reply #337 on: August 15, 2019, 11:33:25 AM »
engravings on pages between page 404 and 405 show an engraving of the top table at the York Banquet however the goblets cannot be seen.
The large silvered globe reflectors on eagle backs can be though:

Food, Cookery, and Dining in Ancient Times: Alexis Soyer's Pantropheon
By Alexis Soyer

https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=MqTDAgAAQBAJ&pg=PA407&lpg=PA407&dq=patent+glass+silvering+company+york+banquet&source=bl&ots=Yu0vncgrRS&sig=ACfU3U1o5xhW8-ZaY1J2kickIIlKv0-6hA&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjcvpXa4ITkAhWZWhUIHfqbB-cQ6AEwAXoECAgQAQ#v=onepage&q=patent%20glass%20silvering%20company%20york%20banquet&f=true

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Re: E.Varnish mercury glass with embossed seal, circa 1849
« Reply #338 on: August 15, 2019, 02:07:45 PM »
Possibly in answer to my questions ' did they buy in the red glass and re-melt' and 'could the red glass have been bought in?':

This is a report from 1843 on Bohemian glass.
The Mechanics Magazine 1845. 
The report was by a French author written in 1843 and published in the Mechanics Magazine in 1845 because of the repeal of the excise laws.
 Pages 398-400 inclusive explains how the red glass was made in sticks and then bought in by Bohemian makers from one maker of ruby glass.  He said all the establishments he'd visited bought in their ruby glass sticks from M. Meyer at Stubenbach, near Berg-Reichenstein.

https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=p9pQAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA427&dq=bohemian+opaline+glass&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwi29bbN-4TkAhUymVwKHY19AEAQ6AEIMjAC#v=onepage&q=bohemian%20opaline%20glass&f=false

As I read it (open to correction here), one maker of Bohemian glass (possibly Neuwelt perhaps?) told him how the ruby glass was made, but that it was unstable/difficult so most bought in the sticks of red glass to use.


On page 399 it describes a colour called Bohemian Ruby Red and explains how that is made.

m


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Re: E.Varnish mercury glass with embossed seal, circa 1849
« Reply #339 on: August 18, 2019, 09:33:19 PM »
This information is from the Art Union Journal (Monthly) volume X (ten) so possibly/presumably October 1848:
PAGE 327
https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=47XlAAAAMAAJ&pg=PA327&dq=mr+Drayton+german+glass&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwibw_fpq43kAhVJ6KQKHfyHCPUQ6AEILDAB#v=onepage&q=mr%20Drayton%20german%20glass&f=false

'We understand that a very large assortment of the German glass is now in the process of manufacture, for the especial purpose of being subjected to the Draytonian process' (my words, i.e. silvered glass).



In the court case, Frederick Hale Thomson says of his partnership with Drayton that he was in the business of silvering glass and had carried it on 'since the Autumn of 1848'.

The timing means that it is very likely Hale Thomson was involved with the import of 'a very large assortment of the German glass' in some way and would then have had access to it.

We do not know at what point Hale Thomson (or indeed he and Drayton together) worked out that he could silver double sided glass and it would be better than having to make a liner for an existing 'normal single walled' vase.  It might have been at the inkwell point as he says in the court case, but it may be he had already realised before that (i.e. the Autumn of 1848), that if they could silver inside two walls of glass rather than having to 'line' an existing vase (e.g. possibly the V&A example with the metal signed rim) it would be much better.
Hence the order for a very large assortment of the German glass. Ordered to meet the 'double walled' spec. perhaps?  Where previously Mr Drayton had been using Bohemian glass items.

So in the autumn of 1848 /October 1848, Hale Thomson and Drayton were working on something together. 
The German glass was ordered, Drayton went off the scene,leaving Hale Thomson to carry on the silvering business.  Who then went into partnership with Varnish, a salesman. 

The stock of 'a very large assortment of German glass'?  Was it ordered in double walled variety because of Hale Thomson's idea? Did it stay with him when he parted company at some point from Drayton?
How long did it take to arrive in the UK? did it arrive in 1849?

Hale Thomson submitted the drawings including a double walled goblet for patent 12,905 on 19 December 1849.
Had they already been made?  Did he already know by Dec 1849 he could silver them internally and the silvering would stick/not go get brown spots after a while as Drayton's original silvering method with cloves did?
https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=lwsCQtrhxFkC&pg=RA2-PA3&dq=hale+thomson+silvered&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjytqKg27bjAhU0QUEAHUl-DzQQ6AEILTAB#v=onepage&q=hale%20thomson%20silvered&f=false


If he did, then they must have already been made and designed and supplied for him to have tried it.


His and Varnish's agreement  to hire Mellish (Mellish recommended by Mr Powell of Whitefriars Glassworks) appears to have been done on 26th December 1849. 
That is AFTER he and Varnish had already submitted drawings of double walled glass including a goblet to the Patent office.
https://www.oldbaileyonline.org/browse.jsp?id=t18520405-382&div=t18520405-382&terms=mellish_varnish#highlight

In the court case Hale Thomson talks about 'he (my words - he was referring to Mr Mellish) was to go to Mr. Powell's glass works to superintend the preparation of the glass for silvering'.  He doesn't talk about glass being blown at Whitefriars. I wonder if Whitefriars were cutting the glass designs,  i.e. the patterns onto blank pieces which had already been supplied - maybe that 'large assortment of German glass'? or cutting holes in the bottom so they could be silvered internally through the hole - hence the numbers engraved on the bottoms of the glass centres to match the goblets.

The York Banquet was in October 1850 where silvered goblets were presented to Prince Albert and the Lords Mayor.



 

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