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Author Topic: BACCARAT- Blue French Opaline Glass Vase - Molded  (Read 1079 times)

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Offline antonizz

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BACCARAT- Blue French Opaline Glass Vase - Molded
« on: October 25, 2017, 03:48:09 PM »
Hi everybody!

I have a question about this blue opaline vase, made by Baccarat.

It has a chip of off the bottom edge (see pictures)

Vase is made in the 19th Century. Molded. I have seen only 1 with the same leaves.

I have seen a couple of other vases like this, which all had other leaves on it.
The ones on my vase seem to be smaller.

Does anybody know if there are multiple designs for it?

I'll share the links of the vases I could find below.


Thank you very much!
R. Antonis

_______________________________
The first link, I believe, comes closest:

https://www.collectorsweekly.com/st...olded-opaline-morning-glories?in=449-activity

https://www.antiques-delaval.com/en...liage-gilding-napoleon-iii-xixth-century.html

https://www.1stdibs.com/furniture/d...t-opaline-vase-enamel-decoration/id-f_204576/

https://www.1stdibs.com/furniture/d...rat-opaline-celadon-crystal-vase/id-f_507183/

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Large-Bac...sCKMUTSILq08qgeIs2Jjk%3D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc

http://www.ebay.fr/itm/112614630546?rmvSB=true

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Baccarat-L...D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557

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Offline Anne Tique

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Re: BACCARAT- Blue French Opaline Glass Vase - Molded
« Reply #1 on: October 25, 2017, 04:50:59 PM »
Your pictures are also smaller than the other ones, any chance to post bigger images? The majority of your links don't work for me.
Is it marked  that you can say made by Baccarat?

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Offline antonizz

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Re: BACCARAT- Blue French Opaline Glass Vase - Molded
« Reply #2 on: October 25, 2017, 05:37:08 PM »
I have re-sized the pictures, because every time I upload 'em it tells me that the attachments are too large.
I don't know if the vase is signed. I assume it isn't. I have received it on another adress, and won't be able to see it for myself till next week.


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Offline KevinH

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Re: BACCARAT- Blue French Opaline Glass Vase - Molded
« Reply #3 on: October 25, 2017, 06:14:02 PM »
Hi antonizz,

Your resized images can be uo to 125Kb for each image and setting the longest side of the image to around 600 / 700 pixels will usually give a Kb size that is ok.

If your resizing software cannot do that, I recommend  http://www.picresize.com/ which is easy to use and gives very good results ... 1, upload, 2, set longest side to 700, 3. resize, check Kb size (reduce pixels if needed), 4. when Kb size is ok, download.
KevinH

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Offline flying free

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Re: BACCARAT- Blue French Opaline Glass Vase - Molded
« Reply #4 on: October 25, 2017, 08:33:55 PM »
This is a version in the V&A:

http://collections.vam.ac.uk/item/O7080/vase-baccarat/

It says Baccarat next to maker but then reading the description of the vase it says:

'Labels and date

This vase is naturalistically entwined with blue and red morning glory. Baccarat used moulds and made opaline colours as did the glassworks at Choisy-le-Roi and St. Louis. The maker of this vase has not been identified []
'

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Offline Paul S.

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Re: BACCARAT- Blue French Opaline Glass Vase - Molded
« Reply #5 on: October 25, 2017, 09:24:16 PM »
this lack of verifiable provenance from museums is more common than I'd thought  -  wouldn't you think that a positive reference source for the attribution would be an important consideration.

Knowing nothing about foreign glass I tend to rely on others for confirmation with pieces such as this  -  so, antonizz, can I ask please, when you do finally have your vase in the hand     ......  is the glass translucent in the way 'opalin' should be and can you see the fire glow when held up to a light  -   or is the glass opaque i.e. complete lack of transmitted light?
But I agree it does appear to match the shape of some other pieces similarly decorated with enamelled and moulded patterns, that are attributed to Baccarat.
Perhaps you can post some bigger better pix soon, and in the meantime sorry I can't answer your original question about multiple designs.
I'm a big fan of morning glory  -  I saw the plant earlier this year  -  a very impressive flower - seem to remember some part of the plant has hallucinogenic properties ??   can't seem to recall now ;)

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Offline antonizz

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Re: BACCARAT- Blue French Opaline Glass Vase - Molded
« Reply #6 on: October 25, 2017, 09:57:15 PM »
Well, I'm glad YOU (Paul S.) asked this question...

Because... I think I recall a long time ago, I believe it was you who explained to me how opaline glass was never cased. And how this opalescent effect was created by adding bone ass to the glass mixture.

With that information I assumed, that there is on one hand; opaline glass...
and on another hand there is opaline glass which has an opalescent effect.

Am I wrong for this?

____________
I also have bought 2 scent bottles this week, of which I'm pretty sure they are opaline glass.
This is based on a thousand examples (other bottles) I find online.
But they don't have this opalescent effect. I'm a little lost here :p

I've added a picture of these bottles.

 

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Offline flying free

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Re: BACCARAT- Blue French Opaline Glass Vase - Molded
« Reply #7 on: October 25, 2017, 10:45:30 PM »
imho, Opaline glass is translucent glass.  Not transparent, not opaque.
It is made with the addition of bone ash in some cases but not always, which I believe can give it a fiery red glow when held up to light.

In some cases it is opaline glass and does not have the red glow.  The translucent effect is made with other additions to the glass.
I have seen this referred to as 'alabaster' glass when discussing Biedermeier glass that is opaline but was not made with the addition of bone ash.

I don't think opaline glass is cased.



I do think opaline glass is always translucent but some items can be very translucent and others less so (but not opaque).

It's at tricky topic.
And it's difficult to explain.


I have added a huge amount of information on this topic with source references, to the board.

I wonder if I should find it and ask the mods to split it off the topic the information was attached to (an Etruscan opaline vase) so that others can add to the topic.






The perfumes are delightful, very pretty and a wonderful colour.





Paul, yes, I've been doing many searches in the museums and it seems that what is listed next to 'maker' is then qualified somewhere else on the page and I realise there is no proof or a reference source.
I have wondered if it is so the item comes up when people search, i.e. the maker is in a 'search' box.  If there was no confirmed maker in there then I wouldn't have been able to find that vase despite knowing I'd seen it at the V&A if you know what I mean?
But that doesn't help and it doesn't seem right if there is no verified source.

m

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Offline flying free

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Re: BACCARAT- Blue French Opaline Glass Vase - Molded
« Reply #8 on: October 25, 2017, 11:02:18 PM »
I have started a new topic just entitled 'Opaline Glass'

I've added a few pieces of research which are good reading for a description and understanding of opaline glass and how it was/is made over the centuries.

One of the topics is this below,but please do take a look at the other information on the 'Opaline glass' thread.


Chapter 1.2.3.5


With reference opaline glass and opacifiers in glass:

Chapter 1.2.3.5 of this book has detailed information on the opacifiers used over the centuries.

Modern Methods for Analysing Archaeological and Historical Glass  - editor Koen Janssens


https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=9OunNskEvXYC&printsec=frontcover&dq=modern+methods+for+analysing+archaeological+and+historical+glass&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjXwJiK7M3MAhVMDsAKHQLLAa0Q6AEIHDAA#v=onepage&q=modern%20methods%20for%20analysing%20archaeological%20and%20historical%20glass&f=false

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Offline Paul S.

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Re: BACCARAT- Blue French Opaline Glass Vase - Molded
« Reply #9 on: October 26, 2017, 08:24:01 AM »
hello antonizz  -  if you think you're confused ...............    ;D       

It's probably fair to say that often what we believe to be solid and definitive answers, as to the definition of much glass terminology, turns out to be more subjective (prone to personal interpretation), that we once believed.               For all of us, this is unhelpful, confusing and makes for much disagreement, and imho is the result of the commercial aspect our market.            There is far too much use of dubious descriptive word association to confer a higher value, or improved provenance, on pieces which might otherwise remain of lesser importance, plus our interpretation can vary depending on our nationality!   

Opaline/opalin is very much one of those areas of problematic definition, and I would still maintain that as already repeated by flying free, this material isn't cased, neither is it opaque, and it should show sufficient translucence such that the sunset glow is apparent.    Unfortunately, I'm not aware of the original Italian or French recipe for the batch make-up, so can't prove that they were either different or identical  -  although I suspect they weren't the same  -  the inclusion of ashes of calcined bones as the opacifier, seems to have been essential.
Colour wise, opaline can be almost anything from a pearly white through most pale colours and on to deep blue and even black (apparently).
Allegedly the best pieces came from Baccarat (French) mid C19 and are possibly the closest in appearance to what we think of as standard opaline.

In addition to information provided in m's link, I notice that one of my dictionaries provides a reference for a full discussion on opaline, its makers, forms and colours  -   as follows:
'Opalines Francaises du XIX Siele (1950) - Yolande Amic.

I asked the question regarding the opaqueness, or otherwise, of your vase, as it would seem to be contrary to what most of us think of as opaline, if your vase was simply an opaque coloured glass that lacked the properties of opaline.             That is not to say that your vase isn't from Baccarat or wherever you believe it may have an association, but simply that if we are forced to say we cannot determine it has the properties of opaline, then it remains impossible to verify it as such.
Opaline glass is one of those materials that often carries with it certain physical properties that are definable and allow us to say with reasonable conviction what it is.

Hope you don't consider we have let you down with our little knowledge  -  most of us here have other day time jobs (like being retired etc.:-)) and would only ever consider ourselves as amateurs.            Regret I don't know your location, but can only suggest that when you do have your vase that you seek appraisal from an expert, and wish you luck.          Please do keep us informed of any further information on this one. :)

Yes, very much like the scents, will give some thought to these and hopefully one of us will give an opinion - deep turquoise is a stunning colour.

P.S.   On behalf of all those here, my thanks for your high quality of written English  -  your linguistic skills are very good, so thanks.

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