Topic: Pellatt & Green Patentees London - Napoleon - Aspley Pellatt

[Gowdod]

Dear All,

not often to be found and especially one with the " Le petit Caporal ".

I thought particularly interesting with inscription on reverse of sulphide... detailing Patentees.

A little bashed about and what I believe may have originally been a scent bottle....rim level uneven and that just would not have done for this quality of piece. The Sulphide and window remain in great order.

I'm aware that Aspley and Pellatt operated for a good period producing sulphides around 1820's however is there a particular period this inscription might date from please?

With kind regards to you all.

Andrew

[KevinH]

Hi Andrew,

That's an interesting item. Based on the normal size of a sulphide of that type, I agree that the bottle was a scent.

As for the period for the inscription, you may have to settle for 1819 [patent for "crystallo-ceramie" (sulphide)] to 1831 [company name changed to Apsley Pellatt & Co.]

The best summary details I can find on the internet is an article in the pressglas-korrespondez site.

And also, an entry in The Atheneum dated May 16, 1846 mentions "Apsley Pellatt & Co, (Late Pellatt & Green)", showing that Mr Green was connected with the company until the change to Pelllatt & Co.

[Gowdod]

Kevin,

thank you.

Andrew

[Robin G]

New to this message board. Since much of my glass is in the form of salt cellars, and I'm not seeing too many of them here, I thought you might like to see some of mine. This is quite large for a salt and very heavy. The diameter across the whole top is about 7 cm. This piece is in the Jokelson "Sulphides" book. He lists it as possible Pellatt & Green and dates it to c. 1831. Is that book still considered accurate?

[KevinH]

As far as I am aware, Jokelson's 1968 book on Sulphides has not been widely criticised. And my copy has no annotations by previous owners, so they were seemingly happy enough with the content.

Personally I am a little disappointed that the book does not give a great deal of dating information - especially on when sulohide inclusions lost favour.

Perhaps I have missed something in the book, but I have not found a dating reference for the Fig IX ruby coloured salts bearing Wellington and Queen Victoria sulphides (queried as Pellatt & Green). The only reference I have found for Pellatt and 1831 is on page 18 in respect of Pellatt's "second patent of Seotember 9" - which may or may not have a bearing on the ruby salts. If we knew for certain which year Apsley Pellat first used ruby glass (a subject still under discussion elsewhere in the Board), it would give us an earliest year for the production of those salts.

I suppose that a sulphide of Wellington is more likely to have been produced for (or by) Pellat as the French sulphide makers would probably have been disinclined to do so.

[flying free]

Cased red glass from Pellatt in 1831? 
I think that date might be questionable.

Does it have any blurb about the piece in the book please?

many thanks
m

[flying free]

sorry Kev, I've just seen that you haven't found a source for it.

Stupid question I know, but just clarifying the ruby salt from Robin - is it the Duke of Wellington?

This is the nearest picture I could find in dress and with the sideburns (sorry it looked as thought the sulphide person had a moustache).  He died in 1852. 
http://www.explore-parliament.net/nssMovies/01/0158/0158_.htm

I don't know how valid the information in that site is but it says
quote
'However, with the death of George IV in June 1830 there came a mood of change - opposition to Wellington's government rose. After a famous speech declaring his determination to resist reform the government was defeated in the Commons and Wellington resigned.'


Just wondering why Pellatt would make a sulphide of Wellington in 1831 if so?

Also wondering about Pellatt's ability to make red glass at that time.

m

[flying free]

there is some information here (from the State Museum of Illinois?), on this Duke of Wellington sulphide attributed to Baccarat.
http://exhibits.museum.state.il.us/exhibits/barker/gallery/index.php?RollID=group01&FrameID=Ac213322wellington]

In the information under that sulphide it says:

'Allen and Moore sulphide profile portrait of the Duke of Wellington; "A & M" inscribed along base of portrait; set on an opaque white ground overlaid with dark blue.
Allen & Moore was a private mint in Birmingham, England. They struck a coin in 1852 commemorating the death of Wellington; the reverse side featured an angel weeping on the sarcophagus.'

Is it similar to the red and clear one ?

[flying free]

I just wanted to cross reference the discussion on the GMB under this link
http://www.glassmessages.com/index.php/topic,31074.msg168279.html#msg168279

It may come in handy at some point.

m

[flying free]

I'm sure this information is known and is on the board somewhere but thought I'd add it whilst I have found it:

On google books on page 326 there is mention of a patent number 4424 of 18th December 1819 for Apsley Pellatt for :
'Encrusting into glass vessels and utensils, white or other coloured, painted or otherwise ornamented figures, arms, crests, cyphers, and any other ornaments made of composition, metal, or other suitable material.'

https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=iArKCvphWicC&pg=PA325&dq=frederick+hale+thompson+George+Foord&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwijy6emlpveAhXmKsAKHVB8D3cQ6AEIJzAA#v=onepage&q=Pellatt&f=false