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Author Topic: Large Hour Glass Threaded Vase Signed & Numbered I.D.and Value Please  (Read 119 times)

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Offline tjunker

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Large Hour Glass Threaded Vase Signed & Numbered I.D.and Value Please Measures 15 1/2" Tall 8" Wide at Base Signed Lutz 665 A. Thanks For any help. Fred

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Offline Paul S.

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Re: Large Hour Glass Threaded Vase Signed & Numbered I.D.and Value Please
« Reply #1 on: November 17, 2017, 02:27:22 PM »
Hi Fred  -  welcome to the GMB. :)          regret to say we don't provide values on this forum  -  appreciate you guys on the other side of the pond do so frequently, and as a matter of course, but this side we consider that ideas as to value are too variable and unreliable, and would suggest you look at auction sites to locate similar pieces with which to arrive at some indication of value.               The reason for this approach is that valuations are subject to much personal opinion and current fashion  -  we are not professional in the assessment of antiques, and our discussions are confined to intrinsic, and not monetary interest.

Hopefully someone here will be able to help perhaps regarding an attribution or provenance, but in the meantime a couple of questions.                Is the threading actually glass rather than created using enamelling.               Where the leaves are showing, has the threading been removed, or might it have been masked off in this area.
It's an attractive and unusual shaped vase  - was this an estate purchase from within the States?

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Offline tjunker

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Re: Large Hour Glass Threaded Vase Signed & Numbered I.D.and Value Please
« Reply #2 on: November 18, 2017, 01:46:15 PM »
Hi Fred  -  welcome to the GMB. :)          regret to say we don't provide values on this forum  -  appreciate you guys on the other side of the pond do so frequently, and as a matter of course, but this side we consider that ideas as to value are too variable and unreliable, and would suggest you look at auction sites to locate similar pieces with which to arrive at some indication of value.               The reason for this approach is that valuations are subject to much personal opinion and current fashion  -  we are not professional in the assessment of antiques, and our discussions are confined to intrinsic, and not monetary interest.

Hopefully someone here will be able to help perhaps regarding an attribution or provenance, but in the meantime a couple of questions.                Is the threading actually glass rather than created using enamelling.               Where the leaves are showing, has the threading been removed, or might it have been masked off in this area.
It's an attractive and unusual shaped vase  - was this an estate purchase from within the States?

Hi Paul Thanks for the post. Is there any way to tell the difference between glass and enamel stripping ? it appears that the leaves were masked off and done after the white. There are some very fine bubbles in white. I acquired it from a dealer that bought a tractor trailer full of antiques from Pennsylvania.Hope someone can identify the maker. Regards Fred

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Offline Paul S.

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Re: Large Hour Glass Threaded Vase Signed & Numbered I.D.and Value Please
« Reply #3 on: November 18, 2017, 03:01:36 PM »
Hi Fred  -  thanks for the additional information.

Unless qualified in some other way, then it's probably true for most if not all of Europe, that when we use the word 'threaded', we are referring specifically to the practice of decorating the item with a continuous fine thread of actual glass, whether clear or coloured.          Aside from historic examples, the sort of threading we're speaking of here was applied manually in the C19, until c. 1875 - so two guys, with one to revolve the item and the other to feed the plastic glass threading in an evenly spaced appearance.    After this date I think it was applied mechanically - but the real thing should be apparent as a single thread, and it will be distinctly proud of the body  -  sometimes it falls off where adhesion was poor or contact with something has broken the thread away.            The accuracy of application and the uniformity of the thread was usually very good - there shouldn't be any significant waviness in the line of thread, and even when coloured, there shouldn't be any doubt as to the fact it's glass.
Enamel as an applied form of decoration has a long history, and almost certainly would not have the same round cross section appearance as glass, if it were used to simulate a thread  -  visually it would be opaque and have a much flatter appearance.

By its nature, threading is applied to a revolving object, and unless there was some form of masking-off where the leaves appear, then it would be very untypical to see areas without threading, assuming it had been created by traditional methods using glass thread.            Your leaves appear to have been created using the same material as the white banding -which looked to my eyes as though there was a possibility both the white and green were enamels  -  but this is only supposition on my part  -  I could well be very wrong.

the shape of your vase is very unusual  -  the silence so far doesn't bode well for an attribution, at least from us European guys.        Have you shown this to your States friends?           Regret the marking means nothing to me. :)

P.S.   sorry, the point about trying to discern whether glass threading or enamel painted decoration is ................    The Victorians were big in glass threading, so depending on which sort you have will be a general indication as to whether C19 or C20.

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Offline Anne

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Re: Large Hour Glass Threaded Vase Signed & Numbered I.D.and Value Please
« Reply #4 on: November 19, 2017, 01:09:07 AM »
Hi Fred, and welcome to the board. Your vase is signed Lutz, which led me to the French-born glassmaker,  Nicholas Lutz (1835-1906) who emigrated to the USA and who subsequently worked at the Boston and Sandwich Glass Company from 1870 to 1888. Threading (example here) appears to be his work.

However, your example would appear to me to be more recent, so perhaps there is another more 20th century maker creating pieces in the style of Lutz? Lutz also now seems to be used as a descriptive term for a variety of threaded decorative finishes, which doesn't help! I also found a Wesley Lutz making glass paperweights,  but no mention of his making vases. Frustrating, isn't it?  ???

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