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Author Topic: Cut lead crystal vase -dorflinger, bohemian or other?  (Read 161 times)

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Offline chasdevlin

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Cut lead crystal vase -dorflinger, bohemian or other?
« on: December 12, 2017, 12:20:47 AM »
Hi

I've recently acquired this rather lovely cut vase. I don't know much about it, other than giving it a vague bohemian label. It's similar to makers such as Val St Lambert, Dorflinger and others, but I can't pinpoint it. It is 10.7 inches height, very heavy and has a great bell like ring when tapped.
I know it's very hard to date and attribute cut vases like this, but if anyone has any ideas, can identify the pattern or can point me to a useful resource, I'd be grateful. Thanks.



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Offline Paul S.

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Re: Cut lead crystal vase -dorflinger, bohemian or other?
« Reply #1 on: December 12, 2017, 10:28:43 AM »
very attractive piece  -  from what I'm seeing this lacks the 'hobstar' and 'Brunswick star' cutting found on much eastern European, and earlier States pieces (ABP perhaps).    IMHO this lacks the all over cutting, often with pinwheel decoration, that might have suggested ABP, and unlikely to be that early - c. 1900.
Here there is a hobnail with a more restrained and plain background, and if pushed I'd be tempted to go more with British than continental, and perhaps middle third of C20, but unless someone can recognize the exact pattern then we could be onto a loser with this one.
Anne Tique will be able to help, hopefully, if this is VSL.
sorry this is unhelpful.

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Offline Anne Tique

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Re: Cut lead crystal vase -dorflinger, bohemian or other?
« Reply #2 on: December 12, 2017, 05:39:43 PM »
Don't think it is VSL, need to check but from the 20/30's onwards, the bottoms we're ground just flat without any stars cut in it.

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Offline chasdevlin

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Re: Cut lead crystal vase -dorflinger, bohemian or other?
« Reply #3 on: December 18, 2017, 06:29:43 PM »
Thanks for the replies.
I was looking at this page http://www.brilliantglass.com/a-guide-to-abcg/the-cane-family and it does seem to have the same, or almost the same, cutting as that described as 'Harvard'.
There is a photo of a green vase halfway down which is the closest thing I've seen to mine, but it is unidentified

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Offline Paul S.

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Re: Cut lead crystal vase -dorflinger, bohemian or other?
« Reply #4 on: December 18, 2017, 07:30:54 PM »
I think you're correct in referring to the green cut-to-clear piece (described as a tumbler) - with what the link describes as the standard cut cane/hobnail pattern - as matching as close as possible to the cutting on your vase.            However, believe you've looked at the wrong caption/image pairing  -  the Harvard does appear to be a more complex cut design, with strawberry diamonds and other forms of decoration.           I prefer to use the description 'hobnail', rather than 'alternate panels' - I maybe going against tradition, but the expression hobnail does seem to have found much popularity in the U.K., although agree cane is the norm in the States.

Not that the illustrated example being green implies that its history and age suggest identical provenance with your vase - green, red and blue were all fairly common overlay colours - perhaps red and green being the most common - they had a long life and are probably used still.
Unfortunately, for us, this cane/hobnail cutting seems to have been used commonly in Europe and the States, so difficult to date, and equally difficult to attribute.         If your vase has known very little use, then it may well be approximately c. 1900 - equally it might be 30 - 50 years later  -  vases tend not to be cosseted - they're used often and their bases tend to show this.
My opinion is that the widespread use of the this cut pattern, its colour and lack of backstamp mean you may have to live with it being anonymous ..............   but it's an attractive piece, has some age, and no doubt cut by a skilled craftsman. 

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Offline brucebanner

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Re: Cut lead crystal vase -dorflinger, bohemian or other?
« Reply #5 on: December 19, 2017, 06:36:46 PM »
I have just been looking at that very page trying to research this one, what a small world.

That emerald colour reminds me of Irish cut glass.
Chris Parry

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Offline Paul S.

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Re: Cut lead crystal vase -dorflinger, bohemian or other?
« Reply #6 on: December 19, 2017, 07:12:52 PM »
Chris - the strawberry cutting on the hobnails shown in the op's link, which match the identical decoration on your hobnails, would suggest that your bowl is related to the Harvard cut pattern, which may well be ABP.         But additionally on yours - and which doesn't appear on the Harvard shown in the link - is what appears to be a hobstar, although again this is reputedly an ABP motif.        Am I correct in saying hobstar on your piece  -  do you agree with that, or is it something else?                     And what is the motif which appears, centrally, toward the bottom in your second picture - can't make out what it's supposed to be.                What is your piece do you think  -  a sugar perhaps?

Appreciate that emerald green might sound as though it had to be Irish  -  do you know for a fact that this particular overlay colour indicates an Irish origin predominately, as opposed to any other?

As I was trying to indicate to the op in my last post, I think there was a misunderstanding in making a connection with the original vase here and the Harvard pattern, although I'm not sure my words were clear enough.                  As mentioned, the problem is that hobnail/cane has been a widespread cut pattern for a long time, so that positive id and origin very difficult.

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Offline brucebanner

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Re: Cut lead crystal vase -dorflinger, bohemian or other?
« Reply #7 on: December 19, 2017, 07:29:18 PM »
Hello Paul I think its a sugar, 4 inches in diameter across the rim, could have been made locally or in America my best guess is around 1890-1900. The feet on the sugar look moulded though not hand applied.

It might be worth going around the edge of the vase with a magnifying glass or good mobile phone on zoom some times the marks or signatures are buried in the scratches.

I was looking at a S&W Emerald cut overlay vase the weekend same colour, badly water damaged inside, the shape reminds me of Waterford vases but as you know it could have been made in many factory's.

A pick looking in from the top.

Chris Parry

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