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Author Topic: Amber flashed cut to clear cut crystal goblet  (Read 58 times)

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Offline rabugheida

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Amber flashed cut to clear cut crystal goblet
« on: January 06, 2018, 11:32:37 PM »
Hello again

another find at a flea market in Paris France

I'm quite curious to learn more about the origins and possible date of this delicate small crystal goblet...

It is an amber color with an incredibly thin thickness at the rim which makes it light and delicate.  The work is immaculate, and each cut is textured with ribs - a detail which I haven't seen before.

thanks for your time


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Offline Paul S.

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Re: Amber flashed cut to clear cut crystal goblet
« Reply #1 on: January 07, 2018, 09:07:16 AM »
hello.               the bottom line is that as this is unmarked then finding the maker is going to be a non-starter.          This is almost certainly a piece of 'flashed' (a chemical staining/etching process), then cut to clear, eastern European made glass - probably what is often commonly described as Bohemian, although more accurately Czechoslovakian might be correct - and which has a long history.           Red was possibly the most common top colour, but amber runs a close second.        Blue and green were also used where the colour was much thicker and described as overlay rather than flashed.
Would agree that the ribbing within the 'clear' parts is unusual, and don't think I've seen that before either -  on better pieces those areas are polished bright, and on lesser quality material is may be simply left matte.
As to age, this might be best assessed by looking at the presence of wear  -  my rather uneducated opinion might be that as your piece is thin in places then this will possible indicate it's quite modern.
You don't tell us the height  -  I thought at first it might have been a vase - I wouldn't have thought a goblet, but assuming its too small to be a vase then possibly a beaker or some other form of drinking glass - but you may well be correct with goblet.           Continental terminology is perhaps different to the U.K.

It's an attractive piece and its genealogy is long  - if you use the GMB search archive (or Wiki etc.) with the words 'flashed' and 'cut to clear', you should get some information of interest. :)

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Offline rabugheida

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Re: Amber flashed cut to clear cut crystal goblet
« Reply #2 on: January 07, 2018, 12:12:59 PM »
OK

I don't think that it was made in the bohemian period - so much more likely 20th century - it has no marks no sign of wear.
Thanks for the tip on flashing - I had been wondering how that is done.
to continue with the proper terminology ... 8)
the piece is 4.5 inches tall - its not a vase and "cup" just didn't seem refined enough. Does that make it a goblet?
To me , after the flashing the glass has been clearly cut and not etched.  this is because each cut has a groove in it as if it had been scooped out with a tool that gives the very regular ribs.  I find it absolutely amazing because of the thinness of the entire glass that it could be cut at all - but I guess thats what makes a superior artisan.
If it is 20th century is it possible to place it in a decade?

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Offline rabugheida

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Re: Amber flashed cut to clear cut crystal goblet
« Reply #3 on: January 07, 2018, 12:52:44 PM »
Some more details for identification...

height : 11cm
weight: very close to 100g
rim diameter : 10cm
rim thickness: 2 mm
the rim is cut I believe, but I don't know yet how to identify fire polished

nor do I know yet how to identify if the base is mold blown or not but the work is immaculate

I hope this helps !  and thanks for your time again

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Offline Paul S.

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Re: Amber flashed cut to clear cut crystal goblet
« Reply #4 on: January 07, 2018, 01:15:12 PM »
apologies, my explanations lacked clarity.                  My use of the word Bohemian, was down to the fact that much glass produced currently in that part of the world is still described as such - rather than Czechoslovakian - which is probably where this might have been made  ......... but to some extent I'm guessing, and it might have been made in another eastern European country.            My complaint about using the word Bohemia is due to the fact that technically it disappeared around the end of WW I, when much of that part of Europe was carved up to avoid what was perceived as a potential repeat of the problems, plus some appeasement and thanks to the Czechs and Slovaks who had apparently assisted the allies during the conflict.
In very simplified form, Bohemia, Moravia and Austrian Silesia went into making up the newly created Czechoslovakia.            Unfortunately, it's vastly more complicated than that, and some of Czechoslovakia was acceded to Germany in the 1930s - some to Hungary and some to Poland. 
The reason why the word is still used is due to the perceived historical high quality of glass from what was originally Bohemia, which still confers a cache simply by use of the word.               I wasn't suggesting your pieces was C19 i.e. from the period of genuine Bohemian output - sorry for the confusion  -  your piece is very much C20.         

As a general principle, glass has reduced in thickness over the centuries (apart from Venetian ;D), and this is noticable in such things as goblets and other drinking glasses, which if C19 are seen with thick walls and often heavy shaped feet/bases.

I also wasn't suggesting your piece was etched  -  and you're correct in saying it isn't.       I think what I was trying to say was that sometimes flashed glass has its top colour 'etched on' - etched onto the clear body -  but quite what I meant by that now escapes me  -  I need to look it up 'in a book' ;), but acid was used somewhere along the line to act as some form of mordant on the clear part, perhaps.          You're correct in saying your clear 'windows' have been cut on a wheel.

In the U.K. there is a tradition that usually goblets have a stem, whereas beakers, mugs, cans and cups do not  -  but that might just be our take on things.    Think I'll go with a beaker or can, but in truth I'd suggest this was never intended for use, and was designed purely as a decorative piece.

As for date - and assuming there is almost zero wear, then I'd suggest last third of C20  -  but dating can be a minefield for the unwarry - though like you I think it's quite modern and doesn't deserve a place in a museum ;)

P.S.    we do usually need to see the underside of the foot of your glass  -  it can help to decide if the piece was blown or mould made.    Yours was probably blown in the sense that the base is probably ground and polished flat to remove any roughness where the piece was attached to the pontil rod.          More often than not, Continental glass will also have its top rim ground and bevelled to remove irregularity created by the blowing process, as opposed to British made glass which is fire polished at the rim - this latter method is presumably quicker and easier, and requires less skill.           Fire polishing requires that the base of the glass is attached to the pontil rod, and the whole item then held briefly at the glory hole (the furnace) whilst the heat melts/plastices the rim to a slightly rounded and smooth contour.             Afterwards the piece is snapped away from the rod and the resulting scar is ground/polished, which gives the tell-tale depression under the foot.
Your piece may not necessarily have been free blown  -  read man/woman elevating the blowing iron whilst blowing  -  the outline shape may have been blown into a mould to create the basic shape. 

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Offline rabugheida

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Re: Amber flashed cut to clear cut crystal goblet
« Reply #5 on: January 07, 2018, 03:00:39 PM »
Hi again...
no time for a full reply but was wondering how it was that you managed to add on to your last entry?
I think its best to put all the dimensions and such in the first post if possible
oh!  and flattery might just get one further than you think :P cheers

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Offline Paul S.

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Re: Amber flashed cut to clear cut crystal goblet
« Reply #6 on: January 07, 2018, 03:23:56 PM »
hi - for approximately one hour after you make a post, you can modify/amend/add a P.S.                  You will see the word Modify to the right and at the top of your message - click on this and you can amend in whatever way you choose  -  provided it isn't inappropriate content  -  this is a family show. ;)
IMHO the one hour is rather limited - I've mentioned this previously to the Mods. but it isn't a matter of life and death and think we agreed that change wasn't essential.

P.S.   try searching under Egermann, and you should get much info on flashed glass - although the original stuff was mid C19 - yours as we've said is C20.

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