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Author Topic: Cameo style vase  (Read 376 times)

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Offline burch69

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Re: Cameo style vase
« Reply #10 on: February 12, 2018, 08:56:56 AM »
Hi m many thanks yes it is an excellent website alright plenty of pics and info. just dropped them a line this morning and look to get a little more time soon to fully explore the site.

Thanks for the reminder

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Offline azelismia

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Re: Cameo style vase
« Reply #11 on: February 12, 2018, 10:17:22 AM »
that's a really gorgeous vase. that pontil i'm seeing there. is that a button pontil?  as far as the first comment in this thread. this isn't peachblow. it's not a heat reactive glass. it's cased. we call it shaded glass. but it is done to mimic peachblow.

that button pontil is really unusual. it's not typical of any of the bohemian houses but that doesn't mean it isn't. (if I'm seeing it correctly) I feel sure I've seen this color combination before with the yellow to white to pink.. but I'm drawing a blank. I do think it's a triple layer glass. but why I don't know. I mean casing wasn't easy. usually when they do it it's to achieve something but with a thick cream layer and a shaded layer whats the point of the green/yellow layer?

echoing the questions in this thread is it uranium glass?

off hand I couldn't say with any certainty which house this came from.  This is typical of the bohemian houses especially Harrach, the triple layer for no reason, the shape and the decoration IS very typical, but that button pontil is throwing me. I can honestly say I've never seen a button pontil on victorian glass of this nature.
the decoration is midgrade. the glass itself is top notch though it took a lot of technical know how. so I'm gonna say it's going to be from one of the better houses.
imo it is also possible it's from another english house just not webb.

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Offline burch69

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Re: Cameo style vase
« Reply #12 on: February 12, 2018, 07:30:24 PM »
I have attached a couple of extra pics of the base, which does appear to be a button pontil. On the uranium or not, i am waiting for a uv torch to see what it does and will post when i have something on that. Many thanks for the info today and have some good leads there to investigate and again will post as i find stuff out or indeed don't. Many thanks Patrick

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Offline flying free

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Re: Cameo style vase
« Reply #13 on: February 13, 2018, 12:56:12 AM »
Loetz? 1890s or so maybe?

m

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Offline burch69

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Re: Cameo style vase
« Reply #14 on: February 13, 2018, 10:03:58 AM »
Thanks m, I was on their site the other night and didn't see anything similar but is excellent site any how so will go and have another look around. 

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Offline Paul S.

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Re: Cameo style vase
« Reply #15 on: February 13, 2018, 09:59:58 PM »
It's an irony that the trade-marked name of peachblow - patented by Mt. Washington c. 1885, and licensed by them to several companies including T/Webb in the U.K. -  doesn't in fact look anything like what we in the U.K. now generally think of as how this décor should appear, or come to that how the original Chinese vase appeared.                  The original product invented by Mt. Washington has an appearance that suggests it has more in common with Burmese than Mrs. Morgan's piece of shiny-surfaced crushed strawberry coloured Chinese ceramic.
Others, in the States, certainly T/Webb in the U.K. and apparently it seems some of the Bohemian factories, did make a surface décor that copied Mrs. Morgan's Chinese vase that started the late Victorian fashion for rose coloured/shaded glass.

I would agree - having looked again at the brown lower portions of Patrick's vase, that this pale toffee/caramel colouring is unusual for British pieces of peachblow, or come to that States manufacture, so comments here that Bohemian is a more likely candidate seems probable.

Azelismia's interesting comments are enlightening  -  to my untrained I had ignored the three layer construction - also the unusual lower colouring, and this button-shaped pontil - certainly looking at the first three of Patrick's original pix I'd have put money on this being heat sensitive  -  and no doubt lost my shirt. :)

I've been through Wilson's Vol. 1 on 'Mt. Washington Glass', in respect of peachblow, and as you'd expect there is very little comment about similar material from sources other than States companies.                Wilson does however comment briefly regarding 'Foreign Competition' - agents offering British material (presumably the T/Webb look-a-like décor), another agent offering Bohemian although the maker is unnamed - and subsequent to these offers c. 1888, an agent by the name of I. Vogelsang & Sons was advertising "Peach blow imitations at one-fourth of the price of real Peach blow" - again the source of this material is omitted - but the name just possibly suggests Continental rather than States or British.
Currently available literature seems rather quiet on the subject of non heat-sensitive/imitation peach blow, but if anyone is aware of a source of information in the books please shout.

In view of the general opinion that this one isn't heat sensitive peach blow, then my comment that it will glow under u.v. is probably wrong since there was probably an absence of uranium in the batch  -  but you will find other uses Patrick for your torch  -  just think of all the U. glass you can now go out and find. ;D
I take the point that this piece was an item of skilled manufacture  -  presumably the rose colour was picked up last of all, and the whole piece blown again to thin and stretch this top colour.             It seems an irony that on the face of it there appears to have been a requirement for more skill and technical know how to make this look-a-like than chucking some U238  ;) into the batch then simply re-striking the vase to achieve the strawberry.

Sorry, I know less than nothing as to whether Loetz/Lotz made such material.

In Charles Hajdamach's current British text book on C19 coloured art glass, there is no mention of faux Peach blow - only the real thing - and sadly I no longer have the Truitt's book on art nouveau Bohemian art glass or Gulliver's volume on British material from the same period, so unable to see what reference there is, if any, to peach blow look-a-like.

Regret this doesn't add anything of use or help regarding Patrick's vase, but just thought some of the related info. was a tad interesting. :)


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Offline flying free

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Re: Cameo style vase
« Reply #16 on: February 24, 2018, 11:51:08 PM »
I've just remembered what the decoration reminds me of - some Edward Webb pieces?
Whitehouse glass is it?

a different type of glass here on A's site but shows a similarity in the type of gilding and enamelling:
http://www.thegildedcurio.com/item-English-775.html

also some cups id'd as Harrach here with what might be similar enamelling:
https://sites.google.com/site/loetzglass/otherunidentified?tmpl=%2Fsystem%2Fapp%2Ftemplates%2Fprint%2F&showPrintDialog=1

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Offline azelismia

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Re: Cameo style vase
« Reply #17 on: March 14, 2018, 02:22:12 AM »
http://www.thegildedcurio.com/item-Harrach-1050.html  a conversation elsewhere got me to go back and look at my own collection again. (it's been boxed up for over a year now) I do have a piece with a button pontil.

I do think this is most likely Harrach. this is a documented design on the piece I have and it does have that finish. button pontils are just very unusual but I do have some proof they were made by harrach. lol.

I don't think it's early period loetz but there is a lot we don't know yet. nearly anything without a mark could be :) unless it's marked with a positively identifying dek marker.


and as far as being uv reactive I'd eat my shirt if it's NOT uv reactive.  almost all of this glass cased or one piece construction nearly always had uranium in the batch.  the inner white layer is where you most often find it.

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Offline Paul S.

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Re: Cameo style vase
« Reply #18 on: March 14, 2018, 08:35:41 AM »
Assuming Patrick now has his uv torch, we need confirmation as to whether this one does or doesn't 'glow'.          Showing my ignorance again azelismia, but curious to know quite why the uranium would be in the inner white layer in particular  -  does that in some way control or affect the appearance of the outer colours? :)
Correct me if I'm wrong, but with genuine peachblow I'd assumed the uranium was in the surface glass.

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Offline azelismia

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Re: Cameo style vase
« Reply #19 on: March 14, 2018, 09:06:28 AM »
i'm not sure anyone does know why. I think maybe it just gave white glass a softer color or maybe it made the inner layers less likely to crack when other layers were applied.

sometimes i think it does change the look of the outer layer. real peachblow mt washington and new england, is just one layer of glass so yes the uranium is in the peachblow layer :) the other kinds of peachblow which are cased glass don't necessarily have uranium. the american one doesnt. webb and the harrach variants would but on the inner layer.  (and sometimes the outer too but not always) the rosa gelb is not a cased glass though so the uranium would be in the one layer. 

I did a pinterest board earlier today for peachblow because there is continued confusion on the matter. in the comments I made little comments about the variants.  also on my website I have mistakenly been calling it peach bloom but it's blossom. and if I'm interpreting the book right it can be applied to all pink shaded glass from harrach from this time period. (they called out pink shaded but they used it for some non pink color shaded glass as well)

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