Topic: ID help needed, please

[Shiralee]

Hi, I found this little weight at a car boot sale. It’s two and three quarter inches wide by one inch high. I know nothing about it apart from that it was owned by someone’s grandmother. I bought it because it intrigued me but now I don’t know if it goes in the display cupboard or shall I use it to hold paper down. Thanks Shiralee

[ahremck]

Lovely find and super rare in Australia.  I would have it in a display cabinet in seconds.

Ross

[KevinH]

Hi Shiralee, I have merged your thread in the Glass forum with the copy thread here in the Paperweights forum.

And, as  Ross has said, I will say with a fair degree of certainty that your "intriguing little weight" is worthy of being displayed prominently rather than just being used functionally.

I believe it is an antique American "nosegay on latticino spiral" weight made at the New England Glass Company (NEGC) sometime between 1852 and 1888.

Boot sale items like this do not crop up very often. Search the internet for "NEGC nosegay paperweight" and you should get a broad idea of its possible monetary value - not that you would ever wish to simply sell it, now you know what it is.

[tropdevin]

***

Hi.  I suspect that it may be a 1920s Chinese copy of the American nosegay: they can be very well made.  The leaves on this one do not look like American ones to me.  The real test is whether it is made of lead crystal (antique American) or a lighter glass (Chinese). (Now found and added an image of  a Chinese one we own - also rather low domed).

Alan

[paperweights]

I disagree with the Chinese attribution.  This has 32 white rods in the latticinio which would indicate an American origin.  Most likely it is not by NEGC (because of the small size and the lampwork seems simple by NEGC standards), but by an unidentified American maker.  If it had 36 rods, we would focus on French factories.  Chinese weights use a different number.  I've had a few of these in my collection over the years, and every time it was 32 rods with no variation.  Just as there are unidentified French factories that made paperweights, I believe there are some American factories which have not been identified. 

[tropdevin]

***

Hi Allan

So you are suggesting mine, with 32 rods in the spiral, is American? That surprises me, as mine is not lead glass, has a crudely ground base, is a light weight glass, and looks Chinese in many ways. Or have I misunderstood something?

Alan

Alan

[paperweights]

Hi Alan,
I counted the rods in the paperweight in the original post by Shiralee.  It has 32 rods.  I did not count the number in your weight.  As noted by Kulles, American weights and I am thinking he was referring to NEGC, weights have 32 rods.  At some point I counted the rods in Chinese weights (nosegay, poinsettia, pansy) and found they were not consistent but also not 32.  The number 29 sticks in my memory.  I agree that the quality of the glass is not great, but that does not make them Chinese.  My theory, and it is just that, is that there was another American factory or at least a glass worker, making these simple weights.
Regards,
Allan

[tropdevin]

Hi Allan

Thanks for the clarification.  I wish makers had signed these pieces in some way, explicit or not!

Alan

[KevinH]

I am pleased that others have given their view on this item.

I apologise to Shiralee for my hasty thoughts on the weight being NEGC. I admit to not checking the details closely enough, such as the lack of clear "veining" in the leaves.

The point made about the number of rods in the spiral is a good one. And it is interesting that "32 rods" is a defining feature for NEGC, but that it is also a feature in Alan's thought-to-be-Chinese example.

Anyone up for finding a match for the millefiori canes?

[paperweights]

Kevin,

Just a small clarification.  I reread the reference.  George Kulles, in his 1987 book Identifying Antique Paperweights - Lampwork, repeated an observation made by Jerry Gard in Paperweight News, May 1986.  The observation was that "spiral latticinio grounds made in nineteenth century American factories contain 32 rods; French paperweight spirals were made with 36 rods." 

I assumed that Kulles original reference was to only NEGC because Sandwich latticinio grounds are very rare.  But Jerry Gard has identified Boston and Sandwich weights with latticinio grounds.  So, Kulles was correct - the distinction is only American vs French and not specific to NEGC.

John Hawley's latest book on Boston and Sandwich repeats that the count is 32 rods, although he points out that exceptions do exist.  He shows one red and white double swirl latticinio with 26 red rods and 26 white rods. 

Confusing, sorry.  My point was only that the weight in question has the right rod count to be American.  And Chinese weights in my experience never have 32 rods.

Allan