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Author Topic: Lovely Mdina? iridescent turned over rim bowl.  (Read 506 times)

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Offline LEGSY

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Lovely Mdina? iridescent turned over rim bowl.
« on: August 10, 2018, 02:01:32 PM »
Got this little piece today but it has me stumped on age as i have not seen the unusual red iridescence on the revers before almost like carnival glass, I guess it's just a design floor maybe as there are a couple of patches of scuffing near it maybe they tried to remove it after being made. Would love to know the general age and id Michael Harris would still have been there when it was made please. Thank you for looking.
Size 7.5" x 1.5"

Offline chopin-liszt

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Re: Lovely Mdina? iridescent turned over rim bowl.
« Reply #1 on: August 10, 2018, 02:46:52 PM »
An everted rim bowl, these are early, and quite possibly from the MH period, they're not common.
I think the red appearing is a result of the way different colours of glass, in layers over each other, permits light to get through the piece. On the other hand, it might be slightly oxidised silver sitting on the surface, or something to do with a combination of those things. I don't think there is actually red in it, although it can be seen and photographed, if you see what I mean? ::)

When you have opaque yellows over blues (or vice versa) the only colour of light that will come through those is red (or, more commonly a slightly dirty purple). The yellow and the blue you actually see is reflected off the surface.
Mixing colours in glass is nothing like mixing colours in paint. ;D
Blue and yellow gives purply reds, not greens.

And the opaqueness of that particular section will matter too.
A very nice find indeed. ;D
I'd love to see and feel it in reality, just to find out where and how the red arises.
Cheers, Sue (M)

"Cherish those that seek the truth;
 Beware of them who find it."
Grimm.

Offline LEGSY

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Re: Lovely Mdina? iridescent turned over rim bowl.
« Reply #2 on: August 10, 2018, 03:16:31 PM »
 ;D
Thank's Chopin-Listz Always a great reply on Mdina glass i think it's my eye's not the camera i don't know why Mdina glass has to be so different from piece to piece it's unique well made and real quality well under valued and i think quite scarce these days, Amazes me how newer  design's have copied older one's also but they have not got the real studio nature of the glass right in my book and these earlier one's are a bit different!!!
Weird bowl though had a few with oxide's on them like the swirly white whispy trails but this is like gold/amethyst lol lots of colors.
This everted rim bowl Reminds me of a miniature charger i have never owned one and would more than likely break it if i had!

 

Offline chopin-liszt

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Re: Lovely Mdina? iridescent turned over rim bowl.
« Reply #3 on: August 10, 2018, 04:24:09 PM »
I had an unusual early experimental thing, which I later discovered was a zig-zag bowl, without the zig-zags. A half-finished thing. It had weird spotty silver deposits on the outside some not shiney, but a bit rough and greyish. I am sure they're not tin, tin does something differently spotty on the surface. :D
What is going on on your surface in this reminds me of that a bit.

Something else you might notice is that it should be fairly finely blown glass - not the usual thick Mdina at all. So it was made by somebody who was really quite good at it, especially for that time period...  ;)
I don't know for certain who it might have been.
But I am going very green around the edges. ;D

One of the main reasons all bits of Mdina are unique is because they actually made their own colours by adding metals to the batches they melted. They didn't buy ready-made and consistent colours from other sources. So the actual colour could easily vary from one melted pot to the next.

Early on, they also had a lot of trouble sourcing cullet. They ended up using old milk bottles and that was unfortunately, a rather sludgey yellowy green colour rather than a nice clear for casing. They did not have good quality materials to work with, so you have to try to take that into consideration when judging the overall quality of a piece.

I like to compare it to remembering that Rembrant had to make his paints from crude materials too, and I don't dismiss his work not being like modern acrylics!
Cheers, Sue (M)

"Cherish those that seek the truth;
 Beware of them who find it."
Grimm.

Offline LEGSY

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Re: Lovely Mdina? iridescent turned over rim bowl.
« Reply #4 on: August 10, 2018, 05:47:02 PM »
 :o
I think you must be able to read mind's when it come's to Mdina Chopin-Listz not an hour ago i and a friend discussed the idea behind the weight of a piece of glass as when researching this bowl came across other similar size bowls which were nearly twice the weight this one is 620grams and dead fine we came to the conclusion that this might have been earlier but were unsure that's why i came here!!! de ja vu  :)
I understand it is hard doing any job after a time and people try to make things easier like with buying in uniform color's and making thing's to specific sizes for sale to help keep up with demand etc etc... i just love things done the old fashioned way. I am also surprised to see green like on half of the rim is that a normal color for Mdina?
Thank you for such a great replies love this site... ;D

Offline chopin-liszt

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Re: Lovely Mdina? iridescent turned over rim bowl.
« Reply #5 on: August 10, 2018, 06:16:44 PM »
Clear greens do appear in Mdina, but they're unusual, and not to be confused with the the later bought-in opaque colours.
It arises when the silver on the surface of one gather reacts in the hot glass in the subsequent, clear casing to create a clear amber colour. This clear amber appears inside the clear casing.  (it must be something to do with precise temperatures that mean it goes clear amber rather than opaque yellow) and that clear amber over teal gives rise to that green.
It's just another of the amazing things that happens when silver metal comes into contact with glass and heat.

Sometimes, you end up with a fabulous sort of electric blue haze inside a thick clear casing - that is from silver metal particles which have not reacted.




Cheers, Sue (M)

"Cherish those that seek the truth;
 Beware of them who find it."
Grimm.

Offline Vitreo94

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Re: Lovely Mdina? iridescent turned over rim bowl.
« Reply #6 on: August 18, 2018, 05:05:24 PM »
I'd say MH era almost for sure. The use of that blue and yellow ochre combo is spot on to 1971-72 designs/ colourways. There is however the very small posibility that its 1973-74, but no later than that just by looking at it. The inverted rim bowls, though continued long after Michael left, are much easier to separate from later ones. This is certainly an early one. The skill it takes to make a bowl like this in the first place is pretty high and given it's finish I'd associate it with one of the few master glassblowers at Mdina at the time that made it. You can never be 100% on who made these things however.

Generally speaking I've only ever seen these early bowls with the first early attempts at the Tiger pattern on them. Not this combo, but as has already been said these inverted rim bowls, even the later ones are few and far between. A lovely find!

If I was forced to give an oppinion on its age, my money would be latter part of 1971-72, but thats just me!

Offline LEGSY

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Re: Lovely Mdina? iridescent turned over rim bowl.
« Reply #7 on: August 18, 2018, 05:37:21 PM »
Thank's for a lovely reply on the bowl really interesting information i really should not have sold my Mdina book a few years ago i have struggled with seeing thing's ever since the Mdina bowl was on a stall in an antique's centre for 2-4 month's on a stall with other more modern mdina and the label read in the style of mdina and it was cheaper than some Mdina paperweights on the same stall i just didn't trust my instincts i believe its losing the book  :o but took the plunge eventually luckily not many Mdina aficionado's near me i guess strange but true i purchased the blue bowl in the same centre 2 weeks ago so its proved quite worth while travelling there, Would anybody know which is the more deasirable piece price wise as i plan to sell one to pay for the other also which would be the better one to hold onto?Thank you for your replies :D

Offline Vitreo94

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Re: Lovely Mdina? iridescent turned over rim bowl.
« Reply #8 on: August 18, 2018, 06:55:45 PM »
You can still find hidden gems anywhere you care to look! I find people tend to know what mdina is and its rough value but dont have any idea on rarities or pieces of significance therefore thats where i find most 'bargains', having that little extra knowledge goes a long way if you know what you're looking for, so good on you for taking a well rewarded risk with the bowl!

As many will tell you on here price is something very subjective and can differ purely on who wants what at a specific time. I deal in Mdina and Isle of Wight Glass and have a stall full of hundreds of pieces of it and generally speaking bowls like that don't come up too much. Could you take a picture of the blue and white bowl from underneath? I'd be intrested to see what the base looks like.

In terms of value, I can tell you I purchased one in a very early example of Tiger for 40 at the glass fair in Birmingham in February, that was cheap. But online there is/ was one for sale up for over 100 and I doubt it sold for that, if I was selling it id be looking for around 75. But you could chance your luck and see if someone would pay more.

That blue bowl looks remarkably like Isle of Wight in appearance at least, a look at the bottom will quickly tell me if it is or not.

Personally I'm very bias towards Michael Harris era as its what I collect myself, aside from later rarities between 1973-74. If I were you I would keep the bowl. Mdina has alot of interest in it and much to the dismay of us collectors its attracting higher and higher prices and selling too! Its likely to always be worth money becuase of what it is.

Offline chopin-liszt

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Re: Lovely Mdina? iridescent turned over rim bowl.
« Reply #9 on: August 18, 2018, 07:13:53 PM »
Verdala would be an unusual shape for IoWSG and blue and white swirls is scarce anyway, I too would suspect IoWSG for that, it even looks as if it might have the flame logo on the base.
But if I had both, there's no way I'd part with the Mdina. I'd happily sell the blue and white (to me) lump.
Cheers, Sue (M)

"Cherish those that seek the truth;
 Beware of them who find it."
Grimm.

 

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