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Author Topic: Victorian Glass Vase Raspberry Pontil S&W Rockingham / Thomas Webb OR Walsh  (Read 394 times)

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Offline Greg.

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Hi All,

Would welcome any thoughts on this English Victorian vase.

The vase has a purple/pink ground, silver foil inclusions and a mottled inky blue colouring. Clear glass casing.

3 applied clear glass scroll feet, the pontil mark has been covered with a clear raspberry prunt.

Height: 8.5cm
Diameter 12cm
Weight: 485 grams

I have seen similar although not exact pieces described as S&W Rockingham also Thomas Webb and Walsh seem to crop up!

Any thoughts would very much be appreciated.

Thanks,
Greg

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Offline chopin-liszt

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Re: Victorian Glass Vase Raspberry Pontil S&W Rockingham / Thomas Webb OR Walsh
« Reply #1 on: September 30, 2018, 04:27:36 PM »
And celery scrolled feet at that!
It's a bit of a treasure whatever it is. I'm racking my brain cell for the name of some suggestions for an unidentified flask John had, which wasn't any of those suggested, but might be this.
All I can think of to add is Nailsea and I'm sure it wasn't that.  ???
Cheers, Sue (M)

"Cherish those that seek the truth;
 Beware of them who find it."
Grimm.

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Offline Greg.

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Re: Victorian Glass Vase Raspberry Pontil S&W Rockingham / Thomas Webb OR Walsh
« Reply #2 on: September 30, 2018, 05:31:01 PM »
Thanks Sue :)

I have a vague memory of John's flask now you mention it, I'll see if I can dig it out.

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Offline glassobsessed

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Re: Victorian Glass Vase Raspberry Pontil S&W Rockingham / Thomas Webb OR Walsh
« Reply #3 on: September 30, 2018, 05:43:29 PM »
Here it is, despite my musings re Salviati, Stevens & Williams remain a contender.

https://www.glassmessages.com/index.php/topic,62750.0.html

John

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Offline Greg.

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Re: Victorian Glass Vase Raspberry Pontil S&W Rockingham / Thomas Webb OR Walsh
« Reply #4 on: September 30, 2018, 07:48:24 PM »
Thanks for the link John. Interesting piece.

For comparison here are a few examples I have come across which have been attributed to 'S&W Rockingham'

http://fieldingsauctioneers.co.uk/lot/120778

https://www.the-saleroom.com/en-us/auction-catalogues/fieldings-auctioneers-ltd/catalogue-id-srfi10083/lot-51f0ff9e-61a8-4393-ad7b-a89b01018269

The two vases in the above links are both the same shape as each other, so assuming the S&W Rockingham attribution for these is correct, they at least demonstrate quite a difference in the way the colours have been used.

Here a link to another piece in a different shape, again attributed to S&W Rockingham:
http://fieldingsauctioneers.co.uk/lot/120824

All of these examples all seem to have a red/purple ground and use a similar palette of colours to a greater or lesser extent.

I suppose the main question is are all of these pieces in this thread related?

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Offline chopin-liszt

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Re: Victorian Glass Vase Raspberry Pontil S&W Rockingham / Thomas Webb OR Walsh
« Reply #5 on: September 30, 2018, 07:50:42 PM »
 ;D We know silver foil was difficult to cope with because it reacts if you don't keep the temperature low enough.
And we know Michael Harris and William Walker worked out a way of using it, but they defintely were not the first.
Who else succeeded, before they did?
That'd give you a short list.
(says she, running off and making no suggestions whatsoever. ::) )

We were cross posting, Greg, but what I said stands. (or wobbles about a bit)

I've now looked at all your links.
The lot after to the first Fieldings one, is more like your shape and has unusual external features.
The muilticoloured things don't have celery handles, and they're decidedly spotty, rather than mottled. The foil looks more "crudely" worked. They're rather lumpy and appear to be made from thick glass, compared with your rather more delicate thing.

Cheers, Sue (M)

"Cherish those that seek the truth;
 Beware of them who find it."
Grimm.

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Offline Greg.

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Thanks Sue :)

Agree about the scroll feet, at present I still haven't found one with similar feet or raspberry prunt over the pontil mark.

My vase is quite heavy for its size, around half a kilo, the glass around the base area is quite thick.

Just to throw another example in the mix, here's another example which is the same shape as the one in the last Fielding's link (again I wouldn't like to say if the attribution is correct or not)

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/253800430938



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Offline chopin-liszt

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Yet again, the foil work looks more crude than your far more delicate stuff. It's been stretched out more and is broken up in big bold chunks, not tiny ones.

My guts are leaning more towards Italy than England.
But I'm aware that might be influenced more by my current longing for a decent pizza than my knowledge of this sort of glass. ;)
Cheers, Sue (M)

"Cherish those that seek the truth;
 Beware of them who find it."
Grimm.

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Offline flying free

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I'm going to stick my neck out and say that the shape,weight, raspberry prunt, and decor all make me think English glassmaker:
1) Thomas Webb did this very fine foil with splotches and coloured glass overlay c.1882 (ref - Gulliver, Victorian Decorative Glass British Designs 1850-1914 pp169 - caveat that not all the pieces in the book are British)
2) Stuart did some amazing examples of those fabulous shell attached scroll feet (Ref as above see pp173 and 174)
3) The prunt is found on English glass
4) Other makes used that encased foil technique and I should imagine whether it is blown in a mold or how far it is blown out,and also the difficulty of the technique, would influence the size of the foil effect and dispersion.

D'Humy used a similar technique in the late 1870s
http://www.britishmuseum.org/research/collection_online/collection_object_details/collection_image_gallery.aspx?assetId=237270001&objectId=33975&partId=1

My starting point would be to search S&W and Thomas Webb if it were mine.
Stuart did those shell feet though but I have not come across anything that I can remember where it is mentioned they used this foil technique.
I have no time to look in the S&W book at the mo but is there a definitive identified piece of Rockingham so that the technique can be clearly seen?

My start point would be Thomas Webb actually.  If you can find a Webb id for the shell attached scroll feet, and a Webb id for the prunt,

m

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Offline Helen W.

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I don't collect this era, but I do have the Williams-Thomas book. I'm more bleary-eyed than usual but I can't find any illustration of Rockingham in it, unfortunately.

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