Topic: Portieux or Vallerysthal (or not) Candlesticks - ID = St Louis 1872

[billben]

I purchased these thinking they were Portieux/Vallerysthal and whilst I can find many examples of one hand on the hip and one on the head by those companies I cannot find this type of base and in addition they all have standard sconces and candle holders whereas these use the bucket and basket respectively as the candle holder.
I used to have a book which i think was called Pressed Glass in the Corning Museum (sadly lost in a flood) and I have a vague recollection of something similar being in there, and by coincidence a pair is being sold on USA Ebay.
They are very heavy and clearly pressed crystal. The underside of the base has a lot of age related wear and a couple of chips and evidence of a ground pontil
Be interested in anyones thoughts.

I still lean towards France, the fugures being very much in the way of Quimper Pottery figures.

[Anne Tique]

Hello,


Well spotted, they are french, St Louis 1872.


https://www.pressglas-korrespondenz.de/aktuelles/pdf/pk-2005-3w-sg-louis-wassermagd-1872.pdf

[billben]

Well !!  That was a very pleasant and unexpected surprise, thank you .  In 30 years of glass collecting and dealing Ive only ever had 1 piece of St Louis.
Thank you very much again 

[agincourt17]

These are sometimes also attributed to John Ford of Edinburgh, though I'm not sure of the evidence on which the John Ford attributions are based.

Barbara Morris’ “Victorian Table Glass and Ornaments” of 1978. Her description within the text reads
“..the pair of comports or candlesticks made by John Ford with a figure of a boy gardener with a basket on his head, with a milkmaid with a pail as his companion. Both figures being in eighteenth dress..”
and with the photo she describes them thus:-
“Pair of figures in clear colourless glass with abraded surface, used as candlesticks or bases with shallow dishes forming comports or tazzas. Made by John Ford, Holyrood Glassworks, Edinburgh, circa 1870-5, h 9 ¾ ins. (Sotheby’s Belgravia).”

Also mentioned as John Ford pieces on p356 of Charles Hajdamach's " British Glass 1800-1914".


Fred.

[Anne Tique]

I see what you mean. At some time St Louis did start to mark their pieces but I don't know exactly as from when. The 1872 catalogue apparently does have pieces that are not marked, I'm reading now.

https://northeastauctions.com/product/rtc-8713-set-of-four-british-frosted-flint-glass-molded-figural-candlesticks-and-a-fruit-stand-attributed-to-john-ford-co-holyrood-flint-glass-works-edinburgh/

[billben]

Thanks for all the contributions.

Given their inclusion in the St Louis catalogue & the fact that not all items were marked I am satified with the attributation.   

I think the fact that they are so simliar in style to 18c French Quimper pottery (see photo) only adds to the French influence in their design.  I cant imagine any reason why Ford would want want to produce figures that are clearly 'continental' both in dress and style, and I would also disagree with Barbara Morris's description.  The male figure is at the very least a young man, certainly not a boy & I would argue too well dressed to be a gardner, more likely that he was some form of merchant, The young woman I suggest is probably carrying water from the well, allowing for the fact that the basket & bucket have been used as candle/dish holders and would not have actually been carried on the head in reality.

Certainly wonderful pieces and amazing attention to detail. They weigh 1.4kg each !!!

[Anne Tique]

Maybe there was some kind of contract or exchange, I've come across a lot of similar models in different catalogues from different companies lately, which makes it all very confusing but perhaps normal practice at the time … I remember we discussed  this in another thread a while ago.


Another example, but this time with Gillinder, who has the same model 'Lion' paperweight fours years later after it appeared in the St Louis catalogue. The author of the text talks immediately about copying, but perhaps more was going on and some kind of agreement was made.


https://www.pressglas-korrespondenz.de/aktuelles/pdf/pk-2010-1w-stopfer-louis-1872-loewe.pdf


It is mentioned in the link re the candlesticks that they were particularly heavy.

[thewingedsphinx]

https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ebay.co.uk%2Fulk%2Fitm%2F232899193161

[Anne Tique]

https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ebay.co.uk%2Fulk%2Fitm%2F232899193161

They're nice pieces but a little optimistic imo.

[billben]

Just as a footnote to this query ..... These were not my sort of thing so i sold them on, they were purchased by a collector in France who lives about 2 miles from the St Louis factory and who has collected St Louis for years and he confirmed they were definately St Louis and one of the last items of pressed crystal made at St Louis prior to the factory being taken over by the Germans following the annexationtion of the area after the Franco Prussian war. Following the 1st WW the region was returned to French control but pressed crysatl was never produced at the factory again.
Hopefully this dispels some of the myths !