Topic: question: correct English name for ... cutting techinque

[kerstinfroberg]

There is this in-between technique - between cutting and engraving.
Directly translated from Swedish it is called flower cutting - in older Kosta catalogues (in English) it is called taillé gravure.
Is that a word still used? If not, pls: what it is called in modern English?
(we are making signs for our museum, and it is always nice if the texts are up-to-date... https://bergdala-glastekniska-museum.se/eng-index.html )

hope it is ok to ask for terminology here

Kerstin in Sweden

[kerstinfroberg]

Someone proposed "intaglio".

When googling intaglio I get the idea that it is used very broadly (intaglio printing, for example).

The glass decorating technique I am referring to is using stones (as opposed to metal discs or hand-held engraving tools).

Here is a picture, a water-damaged selter glass with vines:

[kerstinfroberg]

Please?

Someone must have a name/short description of this techniqe?!?

[culverwood]

Is this it?
Stippling
https://www.gge.org.uk/categories/20081010_3
https://www.gge.org.uk/categories/20081010_1

"In the best pieces engraved by the musician and artist Simon Whistler, who has died aged 64, the glass and the marks scratched into it seem to dissolve, leaving only the images suspended in light. He described the techniques he inherited from his father, the engraver Sir Laurence Whistler, as releasing the light trapped between the surfaces of a piece of glass.
Laurence (obituary, January 6 2001) had virtually re-invented the lost techniques of the great 17th-century glass artists, particularly stippling, a staggeringly labour-intensive technique of cutting myriad tiny marks into the glass, which can give the subtlety of pencil drawing to the brittle medium. Simon wondered if he had measured up to the genius of his father - who was in turn haunted by the brilliance of his own brother, the painter Rex Whistler, who lived fast and died young, killed in action in 1944."

"In a book published last year, On a Glass Lightly, Whistler told the story of his career in glass, accompanied by many fine reproductions of his work. He began engraving in his teens, and could not have had a more experienced teacher. Laurence Whistler was a reserved and sometimes demanding man, but this link between them was valued by both, and Simon received commissions and exposure in exhibitions even when mostly preoccupied with music.
His glass may look superficially similar to his father's, in technique and subject matter, but there are differences. Laurence considered his son to be the better stipple engraver, and Simon took immense trouble to design for the curving shape of the glass. Musical staves often feature in his work, represented with a player's understanding. Romantic landscape figured strongly on his goblets made for exhibition, including a series of 10 Welsh scenes inspired by Turner, in 1989. The landscape photography of Simon's brother-in-law, James Ravilious, in north Devon, was a source of inspiration.

[Anne]

Hi Kerstin, "intaglio" is where a design is cut into the surface, the opposite of "relief" where the design stands proud of (above) the surface of the item, so most engraved glass is of the intaglio type. The intaglio referred to in printing is the method used to produce the master plate from which an image (usually) is printed - they can be etched, engraved or drypoint.

"Stippling" is creating images by tapping the glass with an engraving tool to create images made up of tiny dots. Engraver Lesley Pyke shows various techniques including stippling on her web page here: http://www.lesleypyke.com/page/LP%20Glass%20Engraving%20Techniques.htm

The term you asked about, "taillé gravure" translates directly as "carved engraving", and looking at your example it seems to have a combination of both cuts and engraved discs but I don't know what word/words in English we would use for that combination or if we even have a word for it.

[ahremck]

I think Anne has covered it well but here goes.

Cameo is the removal of layers from the top so one is left with a raised shape.
Intaglio is the exact opposite in a sense.  You remove layers from the top but this time what you get is a hole in the required shape.

I too can't think of a suitable word for "taillé gravure" which looks French to me.  So it would have the same meaning in English as Swedish. 

I can show you an example of stippling which is not what you are interested in.

Ross

[kerstinfroberg]

Thank you all.

I have to conclude that this is not a technique common enough to have a name in English, so I will go with the old taillé gravure that Kosta used at the time.

[kerstinfroberg]

Intaglio it is!

Answering myself: I just re-read the Northwood book (John Northwood - his contribution to the Stourbridge glass industry, printed in Stourbridge 1958). On pages 114-126 there is a description of how J Northwood I developed the "intaglio" technique as a middle way between cutting and engraving. "It may be of interest to know that it is quite a modern type f decoration and only introduced to the Trade about 65 years ago." (p 114) (so in the 1890-ies)
To begin with , they called  it "stone-engraving", and had to do some modifications to the machines used, and eventually landed in calling it "intaglio" technique.
There are no years given, but "[John Northwood and Mr J S William-Thomas] [...] decided to start a small department at Stevens and Williams. Joshua Hodgetts was the craftsman who had worked on the experimental lathe [...] in charge of this new department." (p 124)

Kerstin in Sweden, who now has to modify our museum-signs)

[Ekimp]

There is also a section on Intaglio in the Patents and Techniques chapter of Hajdamach, page 289.

When reading this topic, I was slightly confused as to how to recognise this type of decoration but Hajdamach describes it thus “...a standard intaglio cut will reveal a sharp edge on one side going into the surface of the glass at ninety degrees while the other edge slopes gradually upwards to the surface”. I realised this must be one of the most common techniques I see!

Hajdamach is a little vague on date but looks to start very early 1890s, he says it was in the Stevens and Williams pattern books by July 1892.

[ahremck]

Upon looking again - I would suggest that they have simply done a controlled grinding and not polished the ground area.  Obviously they used a very fine(as opposed to a coarse) grinding head to the tool. 

Cameo also produced the white effect of a true shell cameo by "bruising" the surface.  Cameo glass artists did the same.  Here is a Cameo Perfume Bottle by the late Alisdair Gordon that I own, done as a proper cameo glass item.

Ross