Topic: ID please

[millarart]

can anyone verify maker of this weight please, its been suggested it was by Herbert Dreier made in Strathearn during his lunch break, also suggested it may be ysart brothers by salvador  or Vincent

[KevinH]

Hi Gary, I have sent a reply to your email.

Basically, I can say that the butterfly is typical for Salvador Ysart. But I do not recall seeing the "threaded white cushion" being used by Salavador (or even Paul) in weights.

However, were there some "Vasart" vases which had a similar "crossed" pattern of powdered white in the body?

Herbert Dreier, with some of the "experimental" Strathearn weights from 1979/80 did use that type of cushion, but the threads were usually more "solid looking" and "thicker".

I am still thinking ...

[millarart]

Thanks Kev for your reply and help I should also mention the body of the butterfly is in green aventurine though im finding it hard to capture it properly on a photo

[KevinH]

Gary, thanks for the extra photos.

Having thought about this further, my main comment is that the weight should, if possible, be checked under shortwave uv light. Under the shortwave light I believe it will fluoresce as either a "murky greyish" colour or an "obvious blue". If it has blue fluorescence then it is lead glass and could be either Vasart Ltd (1956 - 1964) or Strathearn (a 1979/80 "experimental weight").

That said, I feel it was made by Salvador Ysart and most likely in the pre-war years at the Moncrieff factory.

It has a flat polished base and that ties in with a few Salvador weights in my collection. The butterfly being set directly on the ground is also a feature known in other Salvador weights. The top of the "white thread cushion" has an obvious "slippage" of the threads which seem off-centre. That same finish is known in some other Salvador Ysart weights which have a "striped cushion" ground (I have a couple and one of them also has a flat polished base).

The white "twsit" pattern of the ground itself looks to me to be formed from cane lengths of clear glass with powdered white lengths picked up from the marver and then given a twist. When set in the weight, and formed as a "cushion" they give an appeance of a "double twist" technique. This is not the same look as the old French / Amercan weights with a very fine double-twist latticinio design - just something broadly similar, but still requiring skill to achieve.

Have I seen another Salvador Ysart weight with the same "white thread cushion" ground? No ... But as with several other designs, once one is found others seem to pop up quite unexpectedly!

[millarart]

Gary, thanks for the extra photos.

Having thought about this further, my main comment is that the weight should, if possible, be checked under shortwave uv light. Under the shortwave light I believe it will fluoresce as either a "murky greyish" colour or an "obvious blue". If it has blue fluorescence then it is lead glass and could be either Vasart Ltd (1956 - 1964) or Strathearn (a 1979/80 "experimental weight").

That said, I feel it was made by Salvador Ysart and most likely in the pre-war years at the Moncrieff factory.

It has a flat polished base and that ties in with a few Salvador weights in my collection. The butterfly being set directly on the ground is also a feature known in other Salvador weights. The top of the "white thread cushion" has an obvious "slippage" of the threads which seem off-centre. That same finish is known in some other Salvador Ysart weights which have a "striped cushion" ground (I have a couple and one of them also has a flat polished base).

The white "twsit" pattern of the ground itself looks to me to be formed from cane lengths of clear glass with powdered white lengths picked up from the marver and then given a twist. When set in the weight, and formed as a "cushion" they give an appeance of a "double twist" technique. This is not the same look as the old French / Amercan weights with a very fine double-twist latticinio design - just something broadly similar, but still requiring skill to achieve.

Have I seen another Salvador Ysart weight with the same "white thread cushion" ground? No ... But as with several other designs, once one is found others seem to pop up quite unexpectedly!

Thanks Kev for your reply and interesting information on this weight can you tell me if the canes used have been seen in other ysart weights? also I really need to invest in a shortwave uv light can you recommend any as I know they are expensive but a lot listed on sites as short wave that aren't or  wont be  suitable for what I require so any links or info would be great
                  thanks again Gary

[KevinH]

My lamp, purchased many years ago (approx £240 at the time) from a supplier in London is a mains powered handheld dual-bulb lamp ... shortwave [peaking at 254 nanometres] + longwave [peaking at 365 Nm]" It is referenced as "UVL 58" and was made by the UVP company in California.

Do a general search for "uvgl 58" and select images to see what the lamp looks like.

The UVP company has now been taken over by a German company, but still using the https://www.uvp.com web address.

I find the new site not so easy to navigate for info, but there is a direct link to a dealership list at:
https://www.uvp.com/europe-africa-middle-east-dealers

Look for the entries under "UK" and then I suggest a bit of browsing to see which dealers, if any, can supply the dual-lamp version and to check priices. You could also try eBay etc. but you may not get a brand new one with unused bulbs that way.

That should give you an idea of good quality units and their prices.

There are cheaper ways to go with battery powered units. However, I suggest being very wary about small "pen" type torches for shortwave use. I once bought one on ebay via Germany but made iin China (called "Lighthouse"). It was poor manufacture and the on/off switch was stuck in a permanent "on" mode. I did not realise that when I put the batteries in - which had to be done with the body cover off the lamp - and I got a brief shot of uv to the face. Dangerous!!

[millarart]

My lamp, purchased many years ago (approx £240 at the time) from a supplier in London is a mains powered handheld dual-bulb lamp ... shortwave [peaking at 254 nanometres] + longwave [peaking at 365 Nm]" It is referenced as "UVL 58" and was made by the UVP company in California.

Do a general search for "uvgl 58" and select images to see what the lamp looks like.

The UVP company has now been taken over by a German company, but still using the https://www.uvp.com web address.

I find the new site not so easy to navigate for info, but there is a direct link to a dealership list at:
https://www.uvp.com/europe-africa-middle-east-dealers

Look for the entries under "UK" and then I suggest a bit of browsing to see which dealers, if any, can supply the dual-lamp version and to check priices. You could also try eBay etc. but you may not get a brand new one with unused bulbs that way.

That should give you an idea of good quality units and their prices.

There are cheaper ways to go with battery powered units. However, I suggest being very wary about small "pen" type torches for shortwave use. I once bought one on ebay via Germany but made iin China (called "Lighthouse"). It was poor manufacture and the on/off switch was stuck in a permanent "on" mode. I did not realise that when I put the batteries in - which had to be done with the body cover off the lamp - and I got a brief shot of uv to the face. Dangerous!!

thanks Kev for uv info I shall look into it though when I looked earlier there wasn't much out there in uk, il have a search on ebay aswell and see what turns up ,

[millarart]

My lamp, purchased many years ago (approx £240 at the time) from a supplier in London is a mains powered handheld dual-bulb lamp ... shortwave [peaking at 254 nanometres] + longwave [peaking at 365 Nm]" It is referenced as "UVL 58" and was made by the UVP company in California.

Do a general search for "uvgl 58" and select images to see what the lamp looks like.

The UVP company has now been taken over by a German company, but still using the https://www.uvp.com web address.

I find the new site not so easy to navigate for info, but there is a direct link to a dealership list at:
https://www.uvp.com/europe-africa-middle-east-dealers

Look for the entries under "UK" and then I suggest a bit of browsing to see which dealers, if any, can supply the dual-lamp version and to check priices. You could also try eBay etc. but you may not get a brand new one with unused bulbs that way.

That should give you an idea of good quality units and their prices.

There are cheaper ways to go with battery powered units. However, I suggest being very wary about small "pen" type torches for shortwave use. I once bought one on ebay via Germany but made iin China (called "Lighthouse"). It was poor manufacture and the on/off switch was stuck in a permanent "on" mode. I did not realise that when I put the batteries in - which had to be done with the body cover off the lamp - and I got a brief shot of uv to the face. Dangerous!!

Kev would this be suitable for the job required  =
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Short-Wave-Ultra-Violet-Lamp-for-stamps/291763039790?_trkparms=aid%3D222007%26algo%3DSIM.MBE%26ao%3D2%26asc%3D57478%26meid%3Dbb74bd2115084d208d00adfa136c0ebb%26pid%3D100005%26rk%3D1%26rkt%3D4%26sd%3D301961886856%26itm%3D291763039790&_trksid=p2047675.c100005.m1851

[KevinH]

The eBay listing does not give the dimensions of the unit. And is it more powerful than a "pen torch" type?

And the "peak wavelength" of the bulb is not stated. It should be 254 nanometers or close to that - otherwise the uv reaction might give different results.

I am not technically qualified in any way regarding uv light. All I know is that there is consistency with a blue reaction when "lead based (24% lead oxide or thereabouts)" "Ysart / Vasart / Strathearn" glass is examined with a 254 nanometer bulb. This also assumes enough power with battery powered units to achieve a clear enough result.

[millarart]

The eBay listing does not give the dimensions of the unit. And is it more powerful than a "pen torch" type?

And the "peak wavelength" of the bulb is not stated. It should be 254 nanometers or close to that - otherwise the uv reaction might give different results.

I am not technically qualified in any way regarding uv light. All I know is that there is consistency with a blue reaction when "lead based (24% lead oxide or thereabouts)" "Ysart / Vasart / Strathearn" glass is examined with a 254 nanometer bulb. This also assumes enough power with battery powered units to achieve a clear enough result.

ok cheers for your reply something I shall try and look into , thanks again