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Offline bidda

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First Hello and a Question...
« on: August 28, 2006, 01:48:06 AM »
Good day to you all. I've just found this forum and am looking forward to learning more and contributing where I might.

My first quesiton is regarding a simple, very small vase I've recently acquired. It stands approx. 9.5cm tall. I'll attach url's so you can have a look and maybe one or a few of you will be able to tell me something about it.
Thanks for taking the time to have a peek,

Bidda
http://www.schellers.org/ebay_images/galfrontfl.jpg
http://www.schellers.org/ebay_images/galsign.jpg
http://www.schellers.org/ebay_images/galbase.jpg
http://www.schellers.org/ebay_images/galtop.jpg
http://www.glasscache.com
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Offline chopin-liszt

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First Hello and a Question...
« Reply #1 on: August 28, 2006, 08:31:50 AM »
:D :D :D

Hello and welcome, Bidda.

My first impression of theis vase is contemporary Chinese reproduction of Galle-style. These are being produced in vast numbers and causing considerable controversy among collectors of glass!

My opinion is that if you like it as a decorative piece - some of them are wonderful, then there's nothing wrong with it.
Cheers, Sue (M)

“All things are subject to interpretation. Whichever interpretation prevails at a given time is a function of power and not truth.” Friedrich Nietzsche


Offline Ivo

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First Hello and a Question...
« Reply #2 on: August 28, 2006, 09:26:59 AM »
Hi Bidda, welcome on  board & good to see that you have mastered the art of photography, resizing and hosting without a single hiccup.

Your vase is a single layer Cameo of recent production and is most likely of Chinese provenance. The signature (do I see "Yall" ?) used on these is loosely based on one of the hundreds of variants of GallĂ© signatures. The other major source of cameo glass  "in the style of" GallĂ© is Romania, where many different signatures are used, sometimes preceded by the word "tip".

These used to be looked upon with outrage as forgeries with intent to defraud; genuine GallĂ© cameo vases would be in the region of 1,000 - 10,000 US$, while these modern lookalikes are valued at a few dozen US.  Few people nowadays are familiar with the real GallĂ© glass - which is only found in hushed auction rooms in France and well lit museum vitrines... Still a nice example of the technique!
Ivo
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 New Book: The Almost Forgotten Story of the Blue Glass Sputum Flask

all texts and pictures (c) Ivo Haanstra.


Offline Frank

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First Hello and a Question...
« Reply #3 on: August 28, 2006, 09:38:41 AM »
While on the subject, whatever happened to all the fake Gallé made in Japan that fooled the major auction houses for years until being uncovered in the 1980's. Wherever I look for info on fake Gallé only these more modern and less effective copies get a mention? I expect most of the Japanese ones are yet again being regarded as the real thing.
Frank A.
Please help preserve glass web-sites for posterity by donating to The Glass Study Association a non-profit organisation.
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Offline bidda

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Indications of Faux
« Reply #4 on: August 28, 2006, 12:43:45 PM »
Chopin,
can you tell me some of the issues that factor into the impression that it's Chinese as opposed to Romanian or even legitimate? I'd like to be able to identify some of these markers myself, someday :)

Bidda

Quote from: "chopin-liszt"
:D :D :D

Hello and welcome, Bidda.

My first impression of theis vase is contemporary Chinese reproduction of Galle-style. These are being produced in vast numbers and causing considerable controversy among collectors of glass!

My opinion is that if you like it as a decorative piece - some of them are wonderful, then there's nothing wrong with it.
http://www.glasscache.com
(http://www.websmileys.com/sm/cartoon/1238.gif)


Offline bidda

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Romania vs. China vs. Japan
« Reply #5 on: August 28, 2006, 01:10:53 PM »
Ivo,
Thank you for your compliments on my photography, though I know I've still much to learn about the "art" of it.

Would a cameo still be considered one layer if the second color is, itself, multi-layered? The reddish pink floral pattern on this vase is cut at two to three levels in some areas so I'm a bit confused by that. Is "one layer" the same thing as "two color"? There are a couple of "leaves" on the vase that are cut in one layer but, most are at least two (not counting the ground) as are the flowers.

I know this "Yall" you speak of... rotten "expletive deleted", that. *grrr* This signature is certainly not that one. The "G" is nearly closed at the top with a curl at the bottom that crosses the, likewise curled at the left, "underline". The "a" has a squared top. The first "l" has a top stem to the left as does the second (though it's slightly higher and harder to see). Finally, the "e" is of the backward 3 variety with an accent mark as opposed to textbook lowercase and in no way resembles a "y" and there's no "tip".

I've looked at photos of, literally, thousands of chinese and romanian "galle-signed" pieces and have not seen any of several elements that this vase contains. For instance, the fact that it's got a ground and polished pontil, there appears to be carving or wheel marks especially near the lip of the piece, the base glass appears to have a somewhat mottled look similar to what I believe is called martele, the lip of the vase curls outward at the sides as I've never seen in a "tube-shaped" vase that's attributed to a reproduction and, lastly, it's diminutive stature. One rarely sees a repro that stands less than 15 cm tall, let alone under 10cm. Also, the pattern and color is one that I've seen repeated in a few different pieces of varying size and shape that are "positively" attributed to Emile Galle and NOT on Ebay ;)

In my vast review of every picture of Galle or supposed Galle that I have found online I've found only two that look nearly identical. One was upon the site of a high-end auction house (James D Julia) and the other was Mike Weedon's Antiques site.

...oops. Sorry for droning on like that  :oops:  I do find this subject very interesting and love learning more about the markers of quality glass regardless of it's maker.

Thanks to everyone who's already replied,

Bidda
Quote from: "Ivo"
Hi Bidda, welcome on  board & good to see that you have mastered the art of photography, resizing and hosting without a single hiccup.

Your vase is a single layer Cameo of recent production and is most likely of Chinese provenance. The signature (do I see "Yall" ?) used on these is loosely based on one of the hundreds of variants of GallĂ© signatures. The other major source of cameo glass  "in the style of" GallĂ© is Romania, where many different signatures are used, sometimes preceded by the word "tip".

These used to be looked upon with outrage as forgeries with intent to defraud; genuine GallĂ© cameo vases would be in the region of 1,000 - 10,000 US$, while these modern lookalikes are valued at a few dozen US.  Few people nowadays are familiar with the real GallĂ© glass - which is only found in hushed auction rooms in France and well lit museum vitrines... Still a nice example of the technique!
http://www.glasscache.com
(http://www.websmileys.com/sm/cartoon/1238.gif)


Offline bidda

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First Hello and a Question...
« Reply #6 on: August 28, 2006, 01:15:17 PM »
Frank,
do you know of any resources where one can view photos or learn about markers of the Japanese pieces? It would be very interesting to copare and contrast these with the accepted indicators of a genuine article. I believe one can learn as much about something by studying it's imitators as can be learned by the study of it alone.

Bidda

Quote from: "Frank"
While on the subject, whatever happened to all the fake Gallé made in Japan that fooled the major auction houses for years until being uncovered in the 1980's. Wherever I look for info on fake Gallé only these more modern and less effective copies get a mention? I expect most of the Japanese ones are yet again being regarded as the real thing.
http://www.glasscache.com
(http://www.websmileys.com/sm/cartoon/1238.gif)


Offline Frank

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First Hello and a Question...
« Reply #7 on: August 28, 2006, 01:29:05 PM »
Since the new repros appeared I have been hunting for info on the pre-internet fraud and can find nothing. It must have appeared in the press in the 1980's so perhaps a newspaper archive. My library lacks good Gallé books but I would expect them to detail it.

Cameo pieces are cased/flashed in one or more colours and either cut or etched to create the design.
Frank A.
Please help preserve glass web-sites for posterity by donating to The Glass Study Association a non-profit organisation.
Scotland's Glass - Ysart Glass
Glass Zoo - Glass Study.COM
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Offline Ivo

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First Hello and a Question...
« Reply #8 on: August 28, 2006, 07:06:57 PM »
maybe you've thown a real one in to test the board - so may i suggest you take it to one of the reputable auction houses to look at as there is no substitute for handling the real thing.
Ivo
► BLUE HENRY ◄
 New Book: The Almost Forgotten Story of the Blue Glass Sputum Flask

all texts and pictures (c) Ivo Haanstra.


Offline bidda

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First Hello and a Question...
« Reply #9 on: August 28, 2006, 07:59:31 PM »
Ivo,
I didn't mean for my querry to be a trick or test but, I have found that many of these boards are very quick to shout, "witch" at anything that comes along, regardless of it's individual attributes. While I certainly understand that it would be irresponsible to proclaim a false piece as genuine, it muddies the collector's pool equally to proclaim the genuine piece as false. Of course, this is only the humble opinion of a semi-novice and can be disregarded without the slightest ill will :)

Thanks for having a look and considering my piece. While I most certainly do more than my share of homework, I really do appreciate the opinions of others that have more experience in this field of glass than I.

I'll take it to a reputable auction house, as you suggested, and let you all know if it's indeed genuine or faux. :) At the very least, you'll have a few more reference photos for your collection.

Thanks again,

Bidda
Quote from: "Ivo"
maybe you've thown a real one in to test the board - so may i suggest you take it to one of the reputable auction houses to look at as there is no substitute for handling the real thing.
http://www.glasscache.com
(http://www.websmileys.com/sm/cartoon/1238.gif)

 

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