No-one likes general adverts, and ours hadn't been updated for ages, so we're having a clear-out and a change round to make the new ones useful to you. These new adverts bring in a small amount to help pay for the board and keep it free for you to use, so please do use them whenever you can, Let our links help you find great books on glass or a new piece for your collection. Thank you for supporting the Board.

Author Topic: Ysart ID  (Read 309 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline millarart

  • Members
  • **
  • Posts: 1018
Ysart ID
« on: November 15, 2020, 03:47:16 PM »
unsure of period this was made ,   Monart period/ Salvador/Ysart Brothers/Vasart weight ?
who needs Revatio when you have a collection of Monart

Support the Glass Message Board by finding a book via book-seek.com


Offline millarart

  • Members
  • **
  • Posts: 1018
Re: Ysart ID
« Reply #1 on: November 15, 2020, 03:48:18 PM »
side view
who needs Revatio when you have a collection of Monart

Support the Glass Message Board by finding glass through glass-seek.com


Offline SophieB

  • Members
  • **
  • Posts: 598
Re: Ysart ID
« Reply #2 on: November 17, 2020, 06:19:52 PM »
Hi Gary,

Lovely weight - Great colours....

All I can say for sure is that it is not by Paul Ysart - so not Monart period.

My bet is Ysart Bros but Kevin will tell you, better than I can...

SophieB

Support the Glass Message Board by finding a book via book-seek.com


Offline millarart

  • Members
  • **
  • Posts: 1018
Re: Ysart ID
« Reply #3 on: November 17, 2020, 07:03:03 PM »
Thanks SophieB yeah my thoughts are salvador ysart brothers period though never seen one like this before
who needs Revatio when you have a collection of Monart

Support the Glass Message Board by finding glass through glass-seek.com


Offline KevinH

  • Global Moderator
  • Members
  • *
  • Posts: 6486
    • England
Re: Ysart ID
« Reply #4 on: November 17, 2020, 10:13:43 PM »
Hi Gary,

This weight leaves me in a condition of uncertainty!

All but one of the canes are certainly from the Ysart Brothers or pre-War periods.

The yellow-and-brown cane is, to the best of my knowledge, from the Vasart Ltd (ie 1956 - 1964) years, but might be Strathearn period. But my mind currently insists on linking it with Jack Allen - for reasons I cannot recall.

As for the weight itself, as we know, older "Ysart canes" frequently appear in younger weights. The base of the weight is akin to finishes of many Vasart Ltd or Strathearn items.

If I had the weight in my collection, the first thing I would do is check the dome for a lead-based batch. Then I would try to remember where I have seen that distinctive yellow-and-brown cane before.
KevinH

Support the Glass Message Board by finding a book via book-seek.com


Offline millarart

  • Members
  • **
  • Posts: 1018
Re: Ysart ID
« Reply #5 on: November 18, 2020, 09:24:39 AM »
Hi Kevin
               thanks for reply, the yellow brown cane is listed on Richard mores site as being Vasart 1946 to 55 or older and shows another weight with the same canes https://strathearn.smugmug.com/StrathearnVasart-Ysart-canes/1946-to-1955-Ysart-Vasart/i-BfCt4dT/A,
also had a look for JA weights after you mentioned his name and this one came up with same cane https://www.pinterest.co.uk/pin/202380576990887436/
who needs Revatio when you have a collection of Monart

Support the Glass Message Board by finding glass through glass-seek.com


Offline Derek

  • Members
  • **
  • Posts: 345
Re: Ysart ID
« Reply #6 on: November 18, 2020, 10:12:53 AM »
Hi Gary and Kev

Jack Allan is known to have had a jar of old Ysart canes which occasionally
appear in Vasart and Strathearn.

The jar was given to Dave Moir when Jack left Strathearn to be head
gaffer at Perthshire. Dave said that the canes were never tried again
and he subsequently gave the jar to John Deacons

The canes eventually ended up with a cane collector in the States.

Hope this helps.

Best regards

Derek

Support the Glass Message Board by finding a book via book-seek.com


Offline millarart

  • Members
  • **
  • Posts: 1018
Re: Ysart ID
« Reply #7 on: November 18, 2020, 06:42:21 PM »
thanks Derek for the info on the canes etc very interesting and good to know
who needs Revatio when you have a collection of Monart

Support the Glass Message Board by finding glass through glass-seek.com


Offline KevinH

  • Global Moderator
  • Members
  • *
  • Posts: 6486
    • England
Re: Ysart ID
« Reply #8 on: November 23, 2020, 01:44:11 AM »
I have found the item that was fixing my mind on the "Yellow-Brown" cane. I am happier that the cane is an "early Ysart" but I am still dubious about when Gary's weight was made.

More words soon.  ;)

KevinH

Support the Glass Message Board by finding a book via book-seek.com


Offline KevinH

  • Global Moderator
  • Members
  • *
  • Posts: 6486
    • England
Re: Ysart ID
« Reply #9 on: November 25, 2020, 09:40:06 PM »
[If any of the links I have used in this post are bad, please add a reply and I will provide Manual Instructions. This is because my PC has recently stopped working for the smugmug website. I can get in via mobile but cannot copy & paste urls between mobile and the PC.]

The weight I was puzzling over
It is a Sulphide Crown over Bright Concentric Millefiori. The "Yellow-Brown" cane alternates with an Orange-White cane in the outer row.  A "JA" signature cane (for Jack Allen) is present amongst the other millefiori.

The weight is in Richard More's smugmug site in a gallery for "Experimental Sulfides":

Sulphide Crown over Bright Concentric Canes.
https://strathearn.smugmug.com/Strathearn-Paperweights/Experimental-Sulfides/i-T5jGQ3M/A

I believe that, along with the three weights Gary has shown or linked to, the “Yellow-Brown” cane of each weight is identical in original structure and colouring.

The Distinct “Yellow-Brown” Cane
This image is located in the "canes" area of Richard's site and belongs with the Blue-Ground weight that Gary has linked to earlier.
https://strathearn.smugmug.com/StrathearnVasart-Ysart-canes/1946-to-1955-Ysart-Vasart/i-b6G8mTZ/A

Close inspection often reveals “accidental differences" in cane slices such as, in this instance, the merging of two adjacent yellow rods in the outer row. The same merging of rods is seen in all of the “Yellow-Brown” canes in the Crown Sulphide. This is due to slippage of the hot glass during the making of the cane length. In the other weights the same slippage, indicates that the cane slices  used in these four weights must have been from the same length of original cane.

In some cases, for the Blue-Ground weight, there are two occurrences of merged yellow rods. This  probably happened during the making of the weight rather than in the pulling of the original cane. Another “accidental difference” can be seen in Gary's weight where the central cane shows little colouring around the white cog canes. This is caused by slippage of the orange (or is it pink?) coating of those white cog canes.

And on colours I have kept to the general “Yellow-Brown” description. However, close examination of each element, in each weight, shows that the “Brown” appearance is actually a shade of amber/orange and is quite bright in some images.

Comments on the eBay (Pinterest image) “Fountain” design weight
The weight was stated on eBay to be made by Jack Allen, I find that hard to  believe. It is in a pattern known to have been used by Salvador Ysart. But with a top facet and no coloured or spattered ground, it raises doubt for it being by Salvador. How about Paul Ysart?

I have not, so far, seen a Paul Ysart weight like that example with all “early Ysart / Ysart Brothers” canes rather than a mix of mostly his own canes.

How about “Experimental Strathearn (1979/80)? I would be happy with that, as I know some of the “experimental” items did use “early Ysart” canes. But I would still prefer it to be checked under short wave UV to be sure it has a lead-based clear glass, and therefore ruling out Salvador or Paul's brothers, and indeed, Paul's pre-Caithness years.

Comments on the Blue Ground weight
A good example of typically “Salvador / Ysart Brothers” work (pre-1956).
It would be good to see how the base is finished but I would be surprised if it did not fit in with  general “Salvador / Ysart Brothers” items.

Comments on the Crown Sulphide weight
The weight has significant features: a JA signature cane; the overall appearance; the distinctive blue/white/red cane (which I have seen in at least one other Jack Allen item), I am comfortable with this weight being made by Jack Allen and I believe it would have been made in the Vasart Ltd period (1956-1964).

Richard has placed this rare Sulphide weight in the smugmug Strathearn “Experimental Sulfides” Gallery. However, it cannot have been a Strathearn Experimental (1979/80) because Jack Allen had left Strathearn Glass in 1968 to work at the newly formed Perthshire Paperweights company.

There is evidence that the “JA” cane used in this Crown Sulphide weight was made in 1963, and that it was mainly used in the period 1963 to 1968 (i.e. last year of Vasart Ltd and up to the date of Jack Allen moving to Perthshire Paperweights).
Ref: GMB thread from 2011 - help needed - Jack Allen paperweight

Conclusion
Detailed comparison of each weight and their canes (all by photo images) has allowed me to accept that:

a) The  "Yellow-Brown" cane is from the "early Ysart" period of "Salvador Ysart (1930s) to Ysart Brothers (1st period Vasart 1946 to 1956)".

b) Gary's Concentric Milleffiori weight is most likely to be from the Ysart Brothers (Vasart) period

c) Based on this latest evidence of weights linked by the “Yellow-Brown” cane, other canes I have seen and queried could also be from the “early Ysart” years.
KevinH

Support the Glass Message Board by finding glass through glass-seek.com


 

SMF spam blocked by CleanTalk
Look for glass on
ebay.co.uk
Visit the Glass Encyclopedia
link to glass encyclopedia
Look for glass on
ebay.com (us)
Visit the Online Glass Museum
link to glass museum


This website is provided by Angela Bowey, PO Box 113, Paihia 0247, New Zealand