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Author Topic: Massive Harrach Pedestal Vase - Etruscan  (Read 864 times)

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Offline flying free

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Re: Massive Harrach Pedestal Vase - Etruscan
« Reply #20 on: December 30, 2020, 09:08:28 PM »
Did you see it in person?
I saw one of those - maybe not the same piece but absolutely definitely the same maker, at a glass fair a few years ago in Birmingham.  Massive vase.  I thought it was a fabulous piece.  However even then, I could not place it and as far as I know the maker has not been identified.  Charles Hajdamach has a version of it in his book as unidentified.  It has never turned up in any of the contemporary art journals pieces or the Great Exhibitions etc as far as I've ever seen and I've seen quite a lot of pictures from both sources. 
There was another maker called Davidson Greathead and Green who made some Etruscan vase that have been discovered.  I've never thought it was by them though.  I think that one really will remain a mystery. 

I cannot put a picture on from the Harrach book, but in that case your figure is absolutely identical.

About the rim - it can be rounded and firepolished i.e blown from the bottom and pontil snapped off at bottom, or it can be blown from the top rim, so the bottom of the piece will have no pontil mark and the top will be cut and then from Harrach would be polished and nicely finished but would be flat in part, not thick and rounded all over the edge of the rim.


btw
Have you seen this thread?
http://www.glassmessages.com/index.php/topic,54777.msg310421.html#msg310421



Offline flying free

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Re: Massive Harrach Pedestal Vase - Etruscan
« Reply #21 on: December 30, 2020, 10:20:23 PM »
/also

here are some good close photographs of a signed 'Richardson's vitrified' 'Etruscan' style vase - they are tranfer printed and the facial elements are different to those on Antonizz's vase:
https://www.trocadero.com/stores/antiqueartglass47/items/1282723/Richardson-English-glass-painted-Vetrified-glass-vase/enlargement1

Offline Ekimp

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Re: Massive Harrach Pedestal Vase - Etruscan
« Reply #22 on: December 31, 2020, 12:36:17 AM »
The picture in the book is a small painting/drawing of the transfers they were using. It looks like the one on this Harrach vase:

https://www.worthpoint.com/worthopedia/etruscan-figures-opal-decorated-12-461380715

The musicians on the vase in flying freeís link (described as Richardson by seller but thought Harrach) match those shown on this site https://sites.google.com/site/loetzandglass/harrach--a-glass-mystery-solved in picture 7 that are said to come from a Harrach design book dated to the 1860's and 70's. I note that there are some subtle differences with the drawing of the same design in picture 9 but I assume thatís because one is a design drawing and one is a photo of the finished item?

Interestingly, the depiction of musicians looks the same as the vase of ďuncertain originĒ on the far right of colour plate 13 on page 136 of Hajdamach.

here are some good close photographs of a signed 'Richardson's vitrified' 'Etruscan' style vase - they are tranfer printed and the facial elements are different to those on Antonizz's vase

The facial elements of the signed 'Richardson's vitrified' 'Etruscan' style vase above are also different to the facial elements shown in Hajdamach with the Richardson mark and diamond registration. Maybe facial features arenít a reliable indicator?

Offline flying free

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Re: Massive Harrach Pedestal Vase - Etruscan
« Reply #23 on: December 31, 2020, 02:49:14 AM »


The facial elements of the signed 'Richardson's vitrified' 'Etruscan' style vase above are also different to the facial elements shown in Hajdamach with the Richardson mark and diamond registration. Maybe facial features arenít a reliable indicator?

No they aren't.   But there are other things - I can't explain exactly what, but there are :)  that can help to put the vase with Harrach or possibly Richardson's and also with Loetz or Davidson, Greathead and Green or Bacchus (which are usually signed) and also some French pieces which have their own odd look. 
Other than that, there are other 'Etruscan' style pieces out there that are extremely hard to pin down.  Like my three pieces :)  Sometimes I think that's because they were in vogue 1845 ish to 1860 so information is scarce or, like my blue vase and milchglas plate, they are so rare that it's hard to even find any criteria to match them on.   And I'm fairly certain those of mine fall in to the 1840s/1850s, so that makes it quite difficult from a resource point of view.

There are some other pieces I see where I wonder if they were produced in a revival period of 'Etruscan' fashion from c.1880s or later and then I think you're blowing in the wind for a maker. There are a few styles that I see fairly often and wonder where on earth they've originated country wise.

Offline antonizz

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Offline flying free

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Re: Massive Harrach Pedestal Vase - Etruscan
« Reply #25 on: January 05, 2021, 03:45:34 AM »
examples of how difficult it can be to id these vases:

These are being sold as probably St Petersburg. They are definitely from the same stable as my giant vase.  But I don't think they're from the same stable as Antonizz's vase despite there being some similarity in the types of figures used as depictions.


https://www.incollect.com/listings/decorative-arts/objects/a-pair-of-white-opaline-glass-polychrome-enamel-vases-in-the-etruscan-style-228493

However, whilst there are similarities with the piece in the Russian collection of the Hermitage, I couldn't find a match on the figures so for now mine is in my head as unidentified :)

Offline antonizz

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Re: Massive Harrach Pedestal Vase - Etruscan
« Reply #26 on: January 05, 2021, 11:08:11 PM »
Yes it is. And that's a very nice pair!

I have sent an e-mail to the Harrach museum yesterday.
If I hear something I'll let you know.

Offline Ekimp

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Re: Massive Harrach Pedestal Vase - Etruscan
« Reply #27 on: January 06, 2021, 07:54:33 PM »
Your man here
https://www.glassmessages.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=70300.0;attach=239005;image
is the same as one in the From Neuwelt to the Whole World book pp187 top right hand pic although that one is all browns and reds costume, no blue.
Out of interest, the man on Antonizzís vase with the shield (as shown in flying freeís link above) also looks to be an almost direct copy of one of Flaxmanís characters from drawings from the Iliad, the legs are slightly different. Shown here:
https://commons.m.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:The_Gods_descending_to_battle.jpg

Offline antonizz

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Re: Massive Harrach Pedestal Vase - Etruscan
« Reply #28 on: January 07, 2021, 03:35:37 PM »
I have received a response from the Harrach museum saying:

,,Dear Mr. ****,
We believe that your pedestal coupe was made also in Harrachov. It is similar as our bowl from our museum.I send you picture from our book, there is year 1864."

And they added this picture:

Offline flying free

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Re: Massive Harrach Pedestal Vase - Etruscan
« Reply #29 on: January 07, 2021, 03:50:16 PM »
 8) That is so lovely they've replied

m

 

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