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Author Topic: possible Scottish weight for ID.  (Read 996 times)

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Offline Paul S.

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Re: possible Scottish weight for ID.
« Reply #10 on: July 03, 2021, 07:05:37 AM »
many thanks to taking a look Kevin - I'm off out shortly and otherwise occupied until some time late this afternoon, but will do all possible to fulfil your requests re additional photos and will reply either this evening or tomorrow morning. :)

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Offline Paul S.

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Re: possible Scottish weight for ID.
« Reply #11 on: July 03, 2021, 06:37:04 PM »
some more pix attached Kevin which hopefully will help.               The cushion does rest at the very bottom of the dome, and the flower sits immediately on top of the purple cushion.   The one or two noticeable scratches are very shallow, and fortunately the  weight lacks any bruises.     I'm inclined to think the clear glass does in  fact show some sun-purpling, which presumably indicates the use of manganese as a decolourant, as probably did most makers of clear glass prior to WW II.            No doubt all the p.w. collectors will be very aware of small almost imperceptible features added during the making of these things, but I hadn't spotted the row of repeat small bubbles that sit between the each flower of canes that compose the garland encircling the outer edge of the cushion.      Held at certain angles these catch the light a tad and twinkle ................    well, it's either that or the beer talking.     Three additional pix are carried over the next post.

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Offline Paul S.

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Re: possible Scottish weight for ID.
« Reply #12 on: July 03, 2021, 06:38:40 PM »
and some pix of the underside ............

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Offline KevinH

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Re: possible Scottish weight for ID.
« Reply #13 on: July 04, 2021, 07:23:14 PM »
Thanks for the extra photos, Paul. You have, without knowing, confirmed to my satisifaction the maker ----- Salvador Ysart.

The first two base photos give us the confirmation because of the "stress lines" (caused by the "cutting in" process which thins out the glass prior to the "cracking off.")  The lines can be seen in the photos between the cracked off central area and the outer area of rough-ground finishing. They appear as an "intertwining" pattern.

So far, I have only seen the "mesh-like" effect on some (and by no means lots) of Salvador Ysart weights. I have not found it on any Paul Ysart weights I have examined. But I am, these days, keeping an open mind.  ;D

I will soon add a word, or several, on the other features of the weight - but right now my oven is dinging a warning to me that my sausage & mash is ready.
KevinH

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Offline Paul S.

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Re: possible Scottish weight for ID.
« Reply #14 on: July 04, 2021, 07:38:20 PM »
sincere thanks for the expert information Kevin  -  very interesting indeed, and look forward to hearing more from you during the coming days.    I hope the bangers and mash prove to be delicious - hope you have some fried onions to go with the meal ;D                  thanks again. 

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Offline KevinH

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Re: possible Scottish weight for ID.
« Reply #15 on: July 06, 2021, 06:33:31 PM »
I have been looking for info to add to my thoughts about this weight. What I found, among other stuff, was something interesting and which I had forgotten about.

In this board there is a thread about a bullet-shaped weight with an upright flower in a pot. The pot, leaves and petals are at different layers but of use for additional support of an ID of "Salvador Ysart."

From 2013: flowered paperweight I/D ? ID = Salvador Ysart

More comment is needed to make better sense of my use of Malc's upright flower. But take a look at the green frit leaves in that bullet-shaped weight. The shade of green is very close, if not the same. Now imagine Malc's bullet weight squashed up to set all the inner elements together - pot / leaves / petals. The result is basically what Paul's weight is - a two layer flowerhead in green and yellow over a coloured cushion ground. Add a garland of small cane slices for decroation. In my mind the bullet shape examples were the forerunner to the flowerhead design using lampworked leaves and petals rather than frit versions.

Much of my thinking so far can easily be queried. And rightly so, especially as I believe I have never seen another Salvador Ysart flowerhead design set flat on a coloured ground!

More soonish.
KevinH

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Offline Paul S.

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Re: possible Scottish weight for ID.
« Reply #16 on: July 06, 2021, 07:53:52 PM »
Kevin - I'm sitting on the edge of my seat - you're a genius and all your help and experience v. much appreciated.     I know almost nothing about weights, but like most non-collectors assume that the bullet shape was a C20 invention - is there an approximate date when this shape was born?            Malcolm's example is indeed massive, and despite his request for date, I can't see an answer to that question, though of course it may well have been somewhere in the unlinked references that your provided.                Another of the similarities between Malcolm's bullet and the weight showing here is the slightly smoky/discolouration of the clear casing                 Look forward to any additional interest you're able to add, and thanks again.

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Offline KevinH

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Re: possible Scottish weight for ID.
« Reply #17 on: July 23, 2021, 06:39:50 PM »
In the previous post, Paul S raised a question on age ...
Quote
I know almost nothing about weights, but like most non-collectors assume that the bullet shape was a C20 invention - is there an approximate date when this shape was born?
My response is a near-hijack of the thread! ...

[I have not included possible American work in this response.]

For paperweight making in Europe there are two periods of note:
Classic period Mid to end 1800s
Post-classic period 1900 to current times

The majority of older Bullet / Egg shaped weights are those with “Trumpet Flower”, “Frit" and "Bubble” designs. And  Peter Von Brackel, in his book, Paperweights, Historicism, Art Nouveau, Art Deco, 1842 to Present, commented, on Page 30, section “2.2 Post-classic paperweights” ...

“The origins of the “Folk art” paperweights from the post-classic period in all probability are located in the area of Bohemia/Silesia and or Thuringia.”

Other countries are stated in the book, but the initial influence appears to have been the main areas first mentioned. Prior to this, the Classic period paperweights were generally dome-shaped and had millefiori designs rather than the typically Post-classic “Frit and bubble”, “Trumpet Flower” etc. weights. Von Brackel offered mostly generalised dating of 1900/1910 to 1930, a period troubled much by war. It seems to me that the making of the Folk-art weights provided quite simple techniques and a “Bullet” or “Egg” shape lent itself well to the upright nature of flowers, whether in the ground or pots. And hopefully the simple, upright flowers provided some comfort amongst families.

(Post classic weights made in Czechoslovakia most often had heavy faceting which added an effective visual aspect but at the cost, in my opinion, of loss of clean lines of the uncut “Bullet” or “Egg” shape.)

But were any “Bullet” / “Egg” shaped weights made prior to 1900?

Von Brackel gives a variety of dates such as 1875, 1889, 1890 for some lesser-known makers. This would make sense (to me) if, say, a focus on Folk-art weights as “friggers.” rather than standard output, was practised before 1900 but quickly took off to fill a simple need.

A friend mentioned to me that he thought the French factory of Saint Louis made (during the Classic period) some “Egg” shaped” weights but sadly he could not find an image or details. However, he did find a photo of a Clichy weight having an Egg-shape with close-packed millefiori adjacent to the outer surface and dated to something like 1850 to 1870. So we do have one example of a Classic period "Egg-shaped" weight albeit decorated with millifiori.

It is tempting to suggest the Clichy millifiori weight influenced the Bohemian / Silesian / Thuringian versions of "Egg-shaped" weights with “Flower" / "Frit” / "Bubbles" motifs! But I think that is a step too far without documented evidence.
KevinH

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Offline Nick77

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Re: possible Scottish weight for ID.
« Reply #18 on: July 26, 2021, 12:48:05 PM »
Not a paperweight as such but St. Louis certainly made egg shaped hand coolers in the classic period, her's the link to mine of a few years back

https://www.glassmessages.com/index.php/topic,51975.msg294793.html#msg294793

And here's another
https://www.glassmessages.com/index.php/topic,60546.msg341559.html#msg341559

I've never seen a flat based egg shaped paperweight of the period that I can recall but it wouldn't surprise me if they did make some.

Nick

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Offline Paul S.

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Re: possible Scottish weight for ID.
« Reply #19 on: July 26, 2021, 06:07:14 PM »
a very big thanks again Kevin, for such a detailed and interesting response  -  I did in fact send you a pm several days back but not seen a response yet - will send another, and if possible you might let me know if received.    thanks.

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