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Author Topic: Hortensja, POLAND - a major discovery (Deco and Carnival)  (Read 8320 times)

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Offline josordoni

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Hortensja, POLAND - a major discovery (Deco and Carnival)
« Reply #20 on: November 30, 2006, 04:51:14 PM »
It is very interesting, I had not realised Poland was such an important glass design centre.
Thank you very much!

Lynne
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Offline Cathy B

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Hortensja, POLAND - a major discovery (Deco and Carnival)
« Reply #21 on: December 01, 2006, 02:26:06 AM »
Hi Glen,

On inspecting my pieces, I'm pretty sure mine were genuinely made in Australia. My immediate gut feel was that the cactus plant under the palm was quite different. On comparison the proportions of the pattern differ in very many ways.

Here's my 8.5" salad.
http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i120/retro_spection/palmtrees1.jpg

And the detail:
http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i120/retro_spection/palmtreesdetail.jpg
Compare these with your bowl. There are differences in relative lengths and angles of the zig-zag element, the detail on the cactus at the base of the tree, the positioning of the stars and the texture of the bark on the tree.

The profile seems to be different - the sides are straighter (which appears to me to be a characteristic simplification that Crown Crystal used when copying patterns).
http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i120/retro_spection/palmtrees2.jpg

I thought perhaps the bowl that you showed may have been a different size, hence the different proportions. But, the same differences show up on the other pieces I have.

The nappy:
http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i120/retro_spection/palmtreesnappy.jpg
cf with the nappies Christine found. The positioning of the stars is the most obvious difference in these, but look at the amount the zig zag line comes out from the base of the tree to the right. The colour also seems to be different--Mine's a bog-standard uranium lettuce green.

In the flesh, the vase also shows similar proportions to the other pieces found in Australia, but it's harder to make out the pattern:
http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i120/retro_spection/palmvase.jpg

The only one that I'm not entirely sure about is this sandwich plate, which shows a clarity of metal which would be extremely unusual for a Crown piece.
http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i120/retro_spection/palmtreessandwich.jpg
But then, these were made in the late 20s before the depression really bit and the standards slid appallingly, so perhaps? Not sure about this one though.

On the weight of that evidence, coupled with the fact that there was a full suite of pieces and a series number ( '78' ), and that I've evidence from various documents that Crown were not above copying pieces, I believe that these items are indeed Australian.

Seriously, they had absolutely no shame. If they were producing them these days, we'd be shooting them down as fakes :) :) :)

Do you have a rough date for your catalogue, Glen?

Cathy

Offline Cathy B

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Hortensja, POLAND - a major discovery (Deco and Carnival)
« Reply #22 on: December 01, 2006, 03:20:44 AM »
Quote from: "Lustrousstone"
I have just realised what Cathy meant when she agreed with me :shock:  I only meant the palm tree was pictured upside down :oops:  and that it had taken me a few seconds to work out that it was the same. Must have been one of those psychic moments


:lol:  :lol:  :lol: Oh, that's what you meant! Doh!! And there I was, wondering how on earth you knew about the Australian connection!!  :) :)

Offline Cathy B

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Hortensja, POLAND - a major discovery (Deco and Carnival)
« Reply #23 on: December 01, 2006, 06:24:26 AM »
Quote from: "Glen"
I suppose the jury is still out - but I suspect Hortensja. What do you think, Cathy?

Glen


Definitely. The ones that Christine has linked are not Australian - so I agree.

Cathy

Offline Glen

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Hortensja, POLAND - a major discovery (Deco and Carnival)
« Reply #24 on: December 01, 2006, 08:12:04 PM »
Hi Cathy - the date of the Hortensja catalogue is 1936. I imagine that sourcing others is not going to be easy, but at least we now have a start.

Many thanks for the photos and details of your Palm Tree pieces - it really is a most interesting situation. One thing that is emerging very strongly is that Australia and Poland had a firm trade link - and I feel sure that Beverley Crystal is tied up in it.

I can also see a whole range of vases in the Hortensja catalogue that are like the Melon Rib vases. There are links here that we are only just touching the surface of.

Glen
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Offline Lustrousstone

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Hortensja, POLAND - a major discovery (Deco and Carnival)
« Reply #25 on: December 01, 2006, 08:20:57 PM »
Another difference betweeen the Polish palms and the Aussie palms is the shade of green. The ones I've seen are the yellowish post sell by date lettuce green - the one that's usually easy to determine as uranium without a light

Offline JC

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Hortensja, POLAND - a major discovery (Deco and Carnival)
« Reply #26 on: December 01, 2006, 10:03:14 PM »
I have thoroughly enjoyed this thread. I love trying to learn about glass,Especially when Crown Crystal has an involvement.  :D  and love to see mysteries unravel. So now we know of  another company that CC copied.
Julie

Offline Cathy B

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Hortensja, POLAND - a major discovery (Deco and Carnival)
« Reply #27 on: December 02, 2006, 01:32:52 AM »
What a tangle. The Aussie ones allegedly date to 1929 which is that earlier, pre-deco period (of Crown Crystal production), and before Glen's catalogue.

Okay, assuming the Australian found ones are Aussie-made (and we can't necessarily do that) that may mean that Hortensja were exporting to Australia in the mid- to late- 1920s. Or, there's also the possibility of transfer of personnel one way or the other.

??????

Cathy

Offline Glen

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Hortensja, POLAND - a major discovery (Deco and Carnival)
« Reply #28 on: December 03, 2006, 12:18:15 PM »
Anne, Bernard, Lynne and Julie - sincere thanks for your kind comments. I really do appreciate and value the feedback. Thank you.

Cathy - you are right that it is a tangle - and I don't think we'll be able to smooth out the knots for quite some time. In fact it's just one of the tangles! The connections and overlaps that I have found with Josef Inwald (amongst others) are also very challenging.

I certainly do find the Australian-Polish link fascinating. I am sure there is a lot more to emerge from this (and I know I have a lot more work to do!)

Glen
Just released—Carnival from Finland & Norway e-book!
Also, Riihimäki e-book and Carnival from Sweden e-book.
Sowerby e-books—three volumes available
For all info see http://www.carnivalglassworldwide.com/
Copyright G&S Thistlewood

Offline Anne

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Re: Hortensja, POLAND - a major discovery (Deco and Carnival)
« Reply #29 on: August 08, 2008, 01:13:31 AM »
I've been asked by a neighbour to identify some of the glassware she wants to dispose of so have been searching the board for identities. One fruit set seems to be similar to the Hortensja Palm item in Glen's fascinating article above. The fruit set is a yellowy-green and glows intensely under a UV light. Pics below...  but looking at Cathy's pics they seem closer to the ones my neighbour has than the Hortensja ones... does this colour help pin down the maker at all?

 

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