Author Topic: Murano Cenedese Vetri Goblet?  (Read 3808 times)

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Offline langhaugh

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Re: Murano Cenedese Vetri Goblet?
« Reply #10 on: June 03, 2011, 06:27:35 AM »
Thanks, Tami, for the compliment, although it took me a minute to figure out it was me as I didn't immediately remember the other thread. I'm not sure this is easily cleared up as the Cenedese history is so murky at times. I think the foil label was much the same in terms of basic design for a good number of years, although I think someone with a better understanding of paper, font design, and printing might be able to establish differences over the years. I couldn't tell if the label in question is 80's or current. I'll attach a photograph of a label and a signature that I think are older, most likely 1950's or 60's.

However, the signature on the scavo piece in the other thread reads "Ars Cenedese" and that is very new. When I said that it was trade marked in the US in 2008, I wasn't saying that was the date for its first use in Murano. However, I  have to confess I  don't think the "ARS" part was in use anywhere much before then.  So I'd say any Cenedese piece with Ars on in is relatively new, even if the design looks old.

What Alex said about Cenedese outsourcing rings very true even for today. The other complicating factor is that the recent Cenedese produced a whole bunch of stuff that was based on earlier designs just about the same time that many older Cenedese pieces came on the market when Designs and Arts (the German company seen often on eBay) acquired a significant amount of old Cenedese stock, which look pristine as they've been sitting in a warehouse for nearly 50 years.

Hope this does not create too much further confusion.

David
My glass collection is at https://picasaweb.google.com/lasilove


Offline Ivo

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Re: Murano Cenedese Vetri Goblet?
« Reply #11 on: June 03, 2011, 06:45:06 AM »
Until Cenedese confirms that ARS Cenedese are or were part of the company I would treat them as unrelated. 
Ivo
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Offline Pinkspoons

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Re: Murano Cenedese Vetri Goblet?
« Reply #12 on: June 03, 2011, 08:57:42 AM »
Here's a matching ARS Cenedese (again, with the name worked into the design) goblet bearing the potentially old-style label:

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Cenedese-Murano-Glas-Pokal-Malerei-MUSEAL-zum-rest-/390317697066?pt=Glas_Kristall&hash=item5ae0bf682a


Offline Pinkspoons

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Re: Murano Cenedese Vetri Goblet?
« Reply #13 on: June 03, 2011, 09:03:10 AM »
More ARS Cenedese, different Cenedese label (this is the plain text label that I've seen on a few contemporary-looking pieces):

http://www.glassmessages.com/index.php?topic=13463.0


Offline Pinkspoons

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Re: Murano Cenedese Vetri Goblet?
« Reply #14 on: June 03, 2011, 09:07:53 AM »
Of course - all the labels might have been used concurrently, for different purposes (export, domestic, prestige customers, bog-standard retail, etc...) or had strong overlaps in the periods in which they were used.

One of the things I learned when studying Danish glass is that you should never entirely rely on a label to date a piece - even if you know it's original to it - because if a factory found a stockpile of obsolete labels... they'd almost certainly use them.  :)

But given that all three labels appear on three similar hand-decorated pieces by the same artist, with the plaque (apparently) dated for 1964, I'd argue for sustained concurrent usage.


Offline langhaugh

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Re: Murano Cenedese Vetri Goblet?
« Reply #15 on: June 03, 2011, 03:15:21 PM »
I wonder if we are dealing with at least two ARS Cenedese here:  one responsible for the enamel pieces (which I admit I know absolutely nothing about) in the 60's onwards, and the other reproducing the pieces that most of us know as Cenedese. We know that on Murano a few names go a long way. Think of Toso, Seguso etc.

I did a Google search and found this on "Find Owner Search": "MURANO CENEDESE VETRI ARS CENEDESE MURANO SRL is believed to be currently owned by “CENEDESE AMELIO”. Treatment of materials, treatment of semi-precious stones, articles of stone, metals and glass materials, glass blowing, glass tempering, glass tinting, and gold plating."

There's another listing for a slightly differently named company at a different address:  Company Name:   ARS CENEDESE MURANO (S.R.L.)
 Detail :   Glassware, decorative
 Address :   S. Marco 30124 Venezia (VE)

There was also a blog about a couple's visit to Venice in 2003 when they visited the "Ars Cenedese factory and showrooms on Murano" at the invitation of one of the owners. Two of the pictures show clearly a whole range of scavo pieces. http://www.callzia.com/Family_Friends/It_Venezia/source/670-818-11.html

My conclusion is that we're talking about at least two separate companies, although, as Alex originally suggested, one might have sold the work of the other. I would modify my statement about anything with Ars Cenedese on it being relatively new, to anything that has Ars Murano engraved upon it it (i.e. the scavo pieces) is relatively new. It could also be that ARS CENEDESE MURANO (S.R.L.) is still selling work by MURANO CENEDESE VETRI ARS CENEDESE MURANO SRL.

My apologies for muddying the waters.
 
David


PS One of Nic's referenced pieces is from Designs and Arts, the German seller I mentioned.
My glass collection is at https://picasaweb.google.com/lasilove


Offline Pinkspoons

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Re: Murano Cenedese Vetri Goblet?
« Reply #16 on: June 03, 2011, 03:31:46 PM »
In the blog on ARS Cenedese, you can see the normal Gino Cenedese logo:

http://www.callzia.com/Family_Friends/It_Venezia/source/img_3144.html

And Amelio Cenedese is the son of Gino, described on the Gino Cenedese e Figlio factory website as still working with them.

It's all very confusing.  ;D


Offline tam bam

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Re: Murano Cenedese Vetri Goblet?
« Reply #17 on: June 03, 2011, 05:11:15 PM »
I think we have learned a lot from this discussion.  Getting the real facts regarding Cenedese is very complicated indeed.  At lease we know a little more now but it is still confusing like David & Pinkspoons stated. 

tam bam


Offline MuranoArtGlassChandeliers

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Re: Murano Cenedese Vetri Goblet?
« Reply #18 on: August 20, 2011, 12:30:32 PM »
Hi

What fantastic pieces.  Generally, these are referred to as MUSEUM QUALITY pieces where the glass is blown the hand painted by what could only be described as extremely talented artists with cartouches of ancient mythical scenes and alike.  They really are gorgeous and you must be very proud to own them.  Keep up the good work

Ciao

Dean
Dean
CEO and Owner
Italian Decor Glass Lights
http://www.italiandecor-glasslights.com
salesandsupport@italiandecor-glasslights.com


 



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