Author Topic: Optic pressed ale glass = (Rummer) Thomas Gammon (Important)  (Read 3524 times)

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Offline Bernard C

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Re: Optic pressed ale glass = (Rummer) Thomas Gammon (Important)
« Reply #10 on: January 25, 2007, 04:00:40 PM »
David — Thanks for looking.    I can't really add to your discovery.

Connie — The W.H., B. & J. Richardson pattern of October 13, 1849 is also a vertically orientated lozenge pattern like your American "Georgian" pattern.   Unmarked items in this pattern are quite frequently found here, so it would not surprise me at all if several British glass houses made it, in pressed and cut forms.

Bernard C.  8)
Text and Images Copyright 200414 Bernard Cavalot


Offline Bernard C

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Re: Optic pressed ale glass = (Rummer) Thomas Gammon (Important)
« Reply #11 on: January 30, 2007, 08:53:41 AM »
Anne, Connie et al — I've found an early example of a horizontally orientated cut pattern like that on your rummer, Anne.   This is a wine glass, pattern No. 366, from the 1846 cut glass catalogue of Percival, Yates & Vickers of Manchester.   It has a tall blank rim above the three interlocking rows of slice cuts, which looks as if it may have been lightly engraved with a design like fruiting vine (it was too early to be acid-etched;  PV started using acid-etched decoration some years later.)    This cut pattern with an intaglio engraved fruiting vine design around the rim was one of the staples of John Walsh Walsh, certainly up to about 1940, and may have been made by them up to their demise in 1951.   Other patterns in the 1846 PV catalogue show engraved decoration of fruiting vine, ivy, rambling roses, and, possibly, hops.

So we have here a very long-lived pattern, probably dating from earlier in the 19th Century, or even earlier.  The novelty of the Gammon registration was probably its transfer to press-moulded manufacture, but this can only be confirmed by checking the archives at Kew.

Here are the published sources I have used, in date of publication order:
  • Percival Vickers:  Yates, Barbara, The Glasswares of Percival Vickers & Co. Ltd., Jersey Street, Manchester, 1844–1914, in Glass Association Journal Volume 2, 1987.
  • Gammon pickle photograph + text:  The Glass Circle, Strange & Rare — 50th Anniversary Exhibition of The Glass Circle, 1987.
  • Gammon & Richardson registrations:  Thompson, Jenny, The Identification of English Pressed Glass 1842–1908, 1989.
  • Early pressed glass history & Gammon pickle photograph:  Hajdamach, Charles R., British Glass 1800–1914, 1991.
  • More details of the Richardson registration:  Thompson, Jenny, A Supplement to the Identification of English Pressed Glass 1842–1908, 1993.
  • Walsh fruiting vine:  Reynolds, Eric, The Glass of John Walsh Walsh 1850–1951, 1999.

Connie — Re the US Georgian pattern (Georgian over here means cascading cubes like Fostoria American).   W.H., B. & J. Richardson registered the design for a decanter in this pattern on 11 January 1851, illustrated in the Thompson supplement.   It looks identical to a decanter shown in the 1846 PV cut catalogue.   Thomas Percival was the nephew of Thomas Webb Snr, in Stourbridge, just down the road from the Richardsons.   If you are going to steal someone else's design, at least make sure they are a long way away, the width of the Atlantic Ocean, for example.   Not wise with a powerful uncle just a few yards down the road.   I wonder what happened.

Bernard C.  8)
Text and Images Copyright 200414 Bernard Cavalot


Offline Sid

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Re: Optic pressed ale glass = (Rummer) Thomas Gammon (Important)
« Reply #12 on: January 31, 2007, 04:14:09 AM »
Hello:

In my opinion, there is only a superficial resemblence between the Georgian pattern elements and those of the Rummer that this discussion is about.  The rummer main pattern element is a horizontal diamond. The main pattern element in Georgian is the hexagonal honeycomb shape with the top row rounded off.  The EAPG folks generically call this latter pattern Honeycomb, the manufacturers often called it Cincinnati or New York.  There are examples of honeycomb which predate EAPG where the pattern is cut not pressed. The honeycomb pattern or variations have been pretty well in continuous production from the 1850s to the present day.

Sid


Offline Bernard C

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Re: Optic pressed ale glass = (Rummer) Thomas Gammon (Important)
« Reply #13 on: January 31, 2007, 09:56:17 AM »
Sid — Grateful thanks for highlighting and resolving the Georgian misconception.   All the English patterns mentioned in this topic have been horizontal or vertical interlocking diamonds.

I will take the opportunity to emphasize that the Strange & Rare photograph of the Gammon pickle jar and two tumblers was captioned two years before Thompson was published, so the lists of registered designs were not then available, and interpreting class III (glass) registration lozenges was much more difficult.    Added to that, there is the possibility that the photograph may have been reversed, a problem found in other glass publications (Jackson, Whitefriars, plate 35 is a reasonably well-known example).   The Richardson material in my first reply does not depend on the pattern of the tumbler, nor on which of the two tumblers it was, just that it was pressed and carried the Richardson registration lozenge.

I hope that makes some sense!

Bernard C.  8)
Text and Images Copyright 200414 Bernard Cavalot




Offline Bernard C

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Re: Optic pressed ale glass = (Rummer) Thomas Gammon (Important)
« Reply #15 on: May 10, 2007, 02:34:24 PM »
See http://www.great-glass.co.uk/index.htm — photo library — pressed glass (English) — for an image of the Thomas Gammon jelly.

Please avoid posting a direct link as it would bypass the sales and marketing side of the website, which would be unfair on the proprietors of this most useful resource.

Bernard C.  8)
Text and Images Copyright 200414 Bernard Cavalot


Offline David E

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Re: Optic pressed ale glass = (Rummer) Thomas Gammon (Important)
« Reply #16 on: May 10, 2007, 03:24:37 PM »
The problem I always find with Great-Glass is that the homepage Applets always contrive to crash my browser... so from my own PoV a direct link is preferred. However...

I just got back from Himley Hall and managed to speak to Roger Dodsworth about this rummer. I have now passed on this link so hopefully he will sign up and offer his expertise. Busy man, though!
David
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