Author Topic: 18th Century engraved goblet. (20th Century repro??)  (Read 1808 times)

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Offline Andy

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18th Century engraved goblet. (20th Century repro??)
« on: January 25, 2007, 10:02:59 PM »
Thought id pop this one on, its a super bit of glass, and i couldnt resist it at a local auction,
Im not sure they know a lot more than me at some auction rooms, and this was listed as a
20th C reproduction of an 18th Century Goblet, Im pretty sure they are right, and if not ive got
a huge bargain! but i wanted it for the nice item it is anyway!
If anyone has some points to make sure its a copy, id like to know, as ive never held a similar
genuine one!
And also, if its a copy , does anyone know when or where it may have been made, and who by??
Thanks Andy.
http://glassgallery.yobunny.org.uk/displayimage.php?pos=-4702
http://glassgallery.yobunny.org.uk/displayimage.php?pos=-4701
http://glassgallery.yobunny.org.uk/displayimage.php?pos=-4700
http://glassgallery.yobunny.org.uk/displayimage.php?pos=-4699

Its definitely handmade, and fake or not, looks great on my shelf!
"Born to lose, Live to win." Ian (Lemmy) Kilmister Motorhead (1945-????)


Offline Ivo

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Re: 18th Century engraved goblet. (20th Century repro??)
« Reply #1 on: January 26, 2007, 08:09:57 AM »
In the real thing you would find that the foot is wider than the cup and that the foot is folded over. It looks as if this foot has been made in a clapper - which ensures it is perfectly round, flat and centered and indicates 19th or 20th century production. The real thing would also have a tiny pontil mark, and the rim would have been finished with tongs, not polished, ground or flame polished.
Ivo
► BLUE HENRY ◄
 New Book: The Almost Forgotten Story of the Blue Glass Sputum Flask

all texts and pictures (c) Ivo Haanstra.


Offline Andy

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Re: 18th Century engraved goblet. (20th Century repro??)
« Reply #2 on: January 26, 2007, 12:46:45 PM »
Thanks Ivo,
just to add a little information, the foot is larger than bowl,
foot 11cm, bowl just 8cm. The foot is not round at all, quite out of shape! but
its definitely not folded.There is a broken pontil mark about 2cm round, and there is age wear
to the rim of foot whick looks genuine, (foot is slightly domed,conical? so wear just on very edge) and
quite a few small air bubbles.
Total height 19 1/2cm. The bowl is thicker glass than the foot,about 3mm and therim of bowl
is certainly nice and smooth.
19th Century would be nice. Any views on pattern? or manufacturer?
a couple of new photos.
http://glassgallery.yobunny.org.uk/displayimage.php?pos=-4708
http://glassgallery.yobunny.org.uk/displayimage.php?pos=-4707

Thanks a lot,
Andy
ps looking in millers glass guide, quite a few with conical but not folded foot.
"Born to lose, Live to win." Ian (Lemmy) Kilmister Motorhead (1945-????)


Offline Ivo

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Re: 18th Century engraved goblet. (20th Century repro??)
« Reply #3 on: January 26, 2007, 01:13:41 PM »
There is no such thing as a "pattern" for old glass and I cannot even think of a country of origin for this item; I have seen similar things made in Sweden, in England, in Italy, in Bohemia and in northern Germany. I would guess it is early to mid 19th century... other than that it is a wonderful example.
Ivo
► BLUE HENRY ◄
 New Book: The Almost Forgotten Story of the Blue Glass Sputum Flask

all texts and pictures (c) Ivo Haanstra.


Offline Andy

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Re: 18th Century engraved goblet. (20th Century repro??)
« Reply #4 on: January 26, 2007, 01:27:58 PM »
Thanks Ivo,
your last point "other than that it is a wonderful example" makes me happy! ;D
Cheers Andy
"Born to lose, Live to win." Ian (Lemmy) Kilmister Motorhead (1945-????)


Offline pamela

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Re: 18th Century engraved goblet. (20th Century repro??)
« Reply #5 on: January 26, 2007, 11:05:09 PM »
Andy, compared with the tennis ball - it must be really a huge item?
Pamela
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Experience teaches that anyone who begins to collect in any field can feel a change in his soul. He becomes a joyful man filled with a deeper empathy, and a more open understanding of worldly things moves his soul.    (Alfred Lichtwark 1852 1914)


Offline Andy

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Re: 18th Century engraved goblet. (20th Century repro??)
« Reply #6 on: January 27, 2007, 12:30:30 AM »
Hi Pamela,
its quite big, 7 5/8" (19.5cm) tall, the foots 4 inches wide, and a tennis ball sits in the bowl
quite snuggly! and its very pretty!
Andy
"Born to lose, Live to win." Ian (Lemmy) Kilmister Motorhead (1945-????)


Offline Andy

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Re: 18th Century engraved goblet. (20th Century repro??)
« Reply #7 on: November 02, 2009, 11:24:57 AM »
I believe i may have some very good news on this old goblet,
i will redo, and add some larger pictures, and reveal what ive found out.  ;D

In the meantime, does anyone have a copy of
Albert Hartshorne ,Old glass. A 19th Century publication, ??  (fig 48 , page 97)

Cheers
Andy

PS a clue. Southern Europe  ;)
"Born to lose, Live to win." Ian (Lemmy) Kilmister Motorhead (1945-????)


Offline Andy

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Re: 18th Century engraved goblet. (20th Century repro??)
« Reply #8 on: November 02, 2009, 12:58:36 PM »
Same photos as in 2007 , enlarged!
"Born to lose, Live to win." Ian (Lemmy) Kilmister Motorhead (1945-????)


Offline Andy

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Re: 18th Century engraved goblet. (20th Century repro??)
« Reply #9 on: November 02, 2009, 03:42:50 PM »
I think im getting myself confused a bit here. I will start again,
I was looking at the interweb for details on 18th Century glass, as i bought a nice little
collection of early drinking glasses a few months ago, while googling about i was trying to
find a 19th Century book by Albert Hartshorne, I came across this link,
http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=CxULGcNgd74C&dq=Old+Glass+-+European+and+American+By+N.+Hudson+Moore&printsec=frontcover&source=bl&ots=wJ6Voj_7oc&sig=XZvMUZGBRepz0uZ0iH4noh3CtEQ&hl=en&ei=wezuSpbBI97TjAfeubCZDQ&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1&ved=0CBMQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=&f=false
The book is,  Old Glass - European and American By N. Hudson Moore
if you go to this link, it may take a few moments to open, there is an illustration of a Goblet (fig 47 on page 94)
by La Grana de San Ildefonso , Spanish 18th Century,glassworks opened in 1725 info on pages 96 onwards.

Could i ask my friends on the GMB, when they have a moment, if they could have a look at this link,
and if anyone has a copy of the book by N Hudson Moore.
I think , from this info, that i probably have a nice old rare piece of 18th Century Spanish Glass ;D

The panels opinion on this piece would be very gratefully recieved,
Cheers
Andy
 8)
"Born to lose, Live to win." Ian (Lemmy) Kilmister Motorhead (1945-????)

 

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