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Author Topic: Is amberina glass the same as carnival glass?  (Read 1566 times)

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Offline BJB

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Is amberina glass the same as carnival glass?
« on: February 24, 2007, 04:59:01 PM »
I have bought this amberina glass comport with ovals of flowers around the outside.
I have looked on ebay.com to see if I could find a match, but alot of the pieces mention
carnival/amberina glass in the same listing (eg amberina carnival glass windmill plate).

Is this because the same companies made both amberina and carnival glass, or the same moulds were used, or is amberina less popular than carnival glass  ;) ?

http://i13.tinypic.com/2czage1.jpg

Barbara





Offline Anne

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Re: Is amberina glass the same as carnival glass?
« Reply #1 on: February 24, 2007, 05:08:11 PM »
Barbara, as I understand things, both Carnival and amberina glass were made by the many of the same companies. They are both types of pressed glass so it's entirely possible to have the same piece made in Carnival, in amberina, and in flint or coloured glass.   I suspect what you've seen in the listings is keyword spamming so the items turn up in various searches.  :-\  Your compote appears to be amberina but I have no idea who made it. Nice-looking piece though.


Offline BJB

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Re: Is amberina glass the same as carnival glass?
« Reply #2 on: February 24, 2007, 05:25:01 PM »
Anne , many thanks for clearing that up. It is a nice piece, and very pretty too with the flowers and well moulded.

Amberina seems to be a mainy American style of glass, in much the same way as carnival, and I haven't seen very much at all.

Its a bit brash for me, like the marigold carnival ( will stick to my small but lovely green collection, with a big thanks to Glen who first showed me that carnival is not just shudder orange  ;D)

Would like to know who made it and the pattern though

Barbara



Offline Glen

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Re: Is amberina glass the same as carnival glass?
« Reply #3 on: February 24, 2007, 05:34:46 PM »
Carnival Glass is (press) moulded, iridised glass with a pattern. It can have any base colour at all - the crucial attribute is that the glass must be iridised.

Your comport does not appear to be iridised, hence it's not Carnival Glass.

The pieces that you've seen where amberina and carnival are mentioned in the same listing will be where the base glass colour (selenium red) is also iridised. L E Smith who make the contemporary version of the Windmill pattern (the pattern was originally made by Imperial) are well known for their red Carnival Glass.

This all brings us to another tricky subject. The colour "amberina" means slightly different things. There is a purist meaning, which was first patented by Locke and Libbey in 1873. To quote Revi ("Nineteenth Century Glass") - "It was the first patented method for producing shaded and parti-colored glassware from a sensitive, homogenous metal. A very small amount of gold in the solution was colloidally dispersed in a transparent amber batch". Revi goes on to explain how the glass was then cooled and re-heated so that "this rapid cooling and reheating struck a red color in the reheated portions, casuing in the finished product a shading of amber to ruby red".

Now, red Carnival Glass was not made until the 1920s - it was around then that the use of selenium in the glass batch allowed pressed glass to be made in the colour red. It is also heat sensitive - and must be "struck" in exactly the same way as described above. The actual process was named "striking to another colour" or "striking" for short. The process relies on the introduction of chemicals to the glass batch that will ultimately change the colour of all or part of the glass item.

I'll quote now, to explain how it is done (Thistlewood "The Art of Carnival Glass"): "Pressed red is a difficult color to achieve with absolute uniformity as it is notoriously difficult to strike. When selenium red is taken from the hot glass batch it is red. However, when it is then pressed in a mould, its color becomes yellow. Subsequent re-heating causes the yellow color to change back to red—technically, what happens is that the crystals within the glass are made smaller by pressing—this causes the color change to yellow. They are then made larger by controlled re-heating, which in turn causes the yellow color to become darker and go back to red.

It’s not unusual to find a yellow shading on red Carnival Glass where the heat has not been great enough on that portion of the item being made. The shading into yellow is called amberina. Standard amberina is where the outer edges of the piece are red but as you look toward the center of the item you see an increasing amount of yellow. Reverse amberina is the opposite way round—the yellow tones are to the outer edge of the piece."

When this glass is iridised, then it's either red Carnival (if it is all red), and amberina or reverse amberina Carnival (where there is red shading).

I'm not sure if I have fully answered your question, Barbara, so please ask again if I can help any further.

Glen


Just releasedCarnival from Finland & Norway e-book!
Also, Riihimki e-book and Carnival from Sweden e-book.
Sowerby e-booksthree volumes available
For all info see www.thistlewoods.net
Copyright G&S Thistlewood


Offline BJB

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Re: Is amberina glass the same as carnival glass?
« Reply #4 on: February 24, 2007, 06:11:57 PM »
Hi Glen,

That is really wonderful, I didn't realise that making red glass was so fraught.I wish I had paid more attention to chemestry lessons at school.It is absulutely fascinating, and I presume very time consuming to make ( not including the ones that were meant to be all red!)

Does this make the comport reverse amberina as only the stem is yellow/orange?

Here is the inside to show you that is is all red

http://i18.tinypic.com/2cda8v9.jpg

This is the only colour I have seen, apart from flint,which could have been a carnival piece as the design is the same only the finish is different. I have never seen just a plain marigold glass plate for example which wasn't iridised, but I presume they exist? And in the same vein (sorry Glen  :-*)
does flint carnival glass exist?

The more I find out the less I realise I know. Its like standing at the bottom of a very tall hill and trying to see the top, you keep getting a little glimpse now and again just to keep you going and then its back to the hard work of getting off the bottom!

Barbara






Offline Glen

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Re: Is amberina glass the same as carnival glass?
« Reply #5 on: February 24, 2007, 06:28:53 PM »
I'd call your comport amberina, Barbara - the outer edges in this case would be the deep red of the bowl part of the piece. Fenton's red Holly comports often have this effect (scroll down this page).
http://www.geocities.com/carni_glass_uk_2000/fenton.html

By flint Carnival, do you mean Carnival with a clear base glass? If that's what you are asking, then the answer is yes. In fact the most popular (easily found) Carnival "colour" is on clear / flint base glass. It's marigold! Marigold Carnival is clear base glass with a golden marigold iridescence. Some smoke carnival is also on a clear base glass. White Carnival is also on clear base glass - it can then be etched to give a frosty look to the glass, and then iridised - hey presto - white Carnival. And there's even Clear Carnival, where a pastel iridescence is applied to clear glass.

It would be impossible to have a plain marigold glass plate which wasn't iridised. If it was marigold - then that IS the colour of the iridescence. But you could have a clear glass item that is also known in Carnival Glass - there are lots of those around  :)

And oh yes..... if the striking goes too far when they are making red, it can end up black!

Glen
Just releasedCarnival from Finland & Norway e-book!
Also, Riihimki e-book and Carnival from Sweden e-book.
Sowerby e-booksthree volumes available
For all info see www.thistlewoods.net
Copyright G&S Thistlewood

Offline BJB

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Re: Is amberina glass the same as carnival glass?
« Reply #6 on: February 24, 2007, 06:37:24 PM »
Hi Glen,

Yes I meant clear carnival, without the top colour, just iridised. I will have to see if I can find any now. I knew marigold was the wrong thing to put just as I pressed the post button  ::) as I can't remember how often you've said that marigold is on a clear base duh.

Now as I try to show I have learnt something from the sites I keep reading, are the little bits in between the flowers called daisy button, and could it be a Fenton piece?

I am trying really I am,

Barbara

Offline Glen

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Re: Is amberina glass the same as carnival glass?
« Reply #7 on: February 24, 2007, 06:47:42 PM »
Hi Barbara  :) it could be Fenton - and in fact the pattern has a familiarity to me, but I cannot place it. I have actually paged through two Fenton books since I saw your first post! Have you checked it for a Fenton mark? Could even be a simple F. Is there some kind of label on the inside (or is it a trick of the light?)

I'm sure someone will know what the pattern is - and then we'll all kick ourselves.

EDITED TO ADD.... or could it be European?
Just releasedCarnival from Finland & Norway e-book!
Also, Riihimki e-book and Carnival from Sweden e-book.
Sowerby e-booksthree volumes available
For all info see www.thistlewoods.net
Copyright G&S Thistlewood

Connie

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Re: Is amberina glass the same as carnival glass?
« Reply #8 on: February 24, 2007, 07:12:00 PM »
Glen -

I think it is a European piece and it is on Pamela's website.  I think it has fooled us before  :D

Offline Glen

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Re: Is amberina glass the same as carnival glass?
« Reply #9 on: February 24, 2007, 07:21:56 PM »
Hi Connie - yes that is where I have just been looking. That's why I put my previous PS in. But I can't see it..... Have you found it yet?
Just releasedCarnival from Finland & Norway e-book!
Also, Riihimki e-book and Carnival from Sweden e-book.
Sowerby e-booksthree volumes available
For all info see www.thistlewoods.net
Copyright G&S Thistlewood

 

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