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ITALIAN vs FRENCH Paperweights - Can they be Both?

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svazzo:
Hello everyone!
I have an unusual question.... Can these paperweights be both Italian Murano pieces and French pieces at the same time?

(http://www.svazzo.com/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/paperweights.jpg)

I ask because the 3 on the left have Italian labels, and the ones on the right have a French acid mark (fleur-de-lys) on the bottom of all 3. Some more blurred than the others...

(http://www.svazzo.com/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/frenchmark.jpg)

So I ask, how can this be? I do see some diferences in the French marked pieces... They seem thicker and larger. More bulky than the 3 Italian ones. Also the Italian pieces seem more detailed (roosters crest for example). Saying this, you can see that the 2 Penguin paperweights are almost exact. Whats the deal???
Where Murano pieces imported to France and marked as French just because? Or was it the other way around?
I know for a fact that his pieces have been attributed as Murano in catalogues, so does anyone have an idea?
Would like to hear your opinions about this.
Thanks!
Javier

KevinH:
Personally, I would call these items "figurines" rather than paperweights but I have to admit that I have become influenced by the sort of things that are seen in so-called "important paperweight collections"  :lol:

Ok, I also admit that I have no idea about the items in question other than that I agree that "Italian" and "French" seems odd. But, as I think I have said elsewhere, it is a fact that some modern Murano outlets sell Chinese output amongst their own items - and perhaps actively encourage the Chinese paperweights as they can be purchased in bulk at very cheap rates. So, could there also be "an arrangement" with other countries, such as France, for the simpler, tourist gift-wares? Just a thought.

Another thought is that are we sure the etched "France" mark actually says "France" - could it possibly be "Venice"? Just becuase there is a fleur-de-lis mark does not necessarily mean it's French.

Frank:
Perhaps the same design was made by two factories, one in each country.

svazzo:
The Label says "An Original Creation By - KB - Made In Italy." I have collected many pieces with this label, and they are infact Vintage. Some pieces i've had before were made by Barovier & Toso, Barbini, and Seguso. This Figures in particular, at least when I first bought the 3 on the left, have been attributed to Barbini and Seguso in catalogues.
So when I bought this last 3, I was surprised by the mark underneath.

svazzo:

--- Quote from: "KevH" ---Personally, I would call these items "figurines" rather than paperweights
--- End quote ---


Agreed....


--- Quote from: "KevH" ---Ok, I also admit that I have no idea about the items in question other than that I agree that "Italian" and "French" seems odd.... But, as I think I have said elsewhere, it is a fact that some modern Murano outlets sell Chinese output amongst their own items....
--- End quote ---


I have to say this are not new pieces, at least I know for a fact the ones with the KB labels are old, late 40's early 50's I believe. This is from experience with similar pieces and their attributions.


--- Quote from: "KevH" ---....could it possibly be "Venice"? Just becuase there is a fleur-de-lis mark does not necessarily mean it's French.
--- End quote ---


I never thought of that, if there are pieces marked Venice out there with the same mark, that would make alot of sense. Thanks for bringing that to the table. I had posted the fleur-de-lis mark mark on another topic, but no one responded to it, so I thought it was "France" not "Venice."

The pic I posted is as good as it gets, and the other 2 figures have the mark even more blurred, so it is hard to tell which of the 2 is true. If anyone out there has seen the same mark, please let us know!

Then again, I dont understand why would the 3 with the KB labels dont have the same mark underneath if it only says "Venice"?
Javier

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