Author Topic: ARCHIVE? Signature K-11 R-e.56 and R-e -57, K 16  (Read 6154 times)

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Offline taylog1

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ARCHIVE? Signature K-11 R-e.56 and R-e -57, K 16
« Reply #20 on: March 03, 2005, 06:58:38 AM »
Thanks Max, exactly the point I was making.


Offline Frank

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ARCHIVE? Signature K-11 R-e.56 and R-e -57, K 16
« Reply #21 on: March 03, 2005, 09:27:01 AM »
For what it is worth....

... dates can be a very difficult to get accurate and can only be confirmed from verifiable first hand, witnessed accounts. Even dealing with the families and workers related to a single glassworks can be fraught with inconsistencies.

On my site I have three highly researched resources - listing company data, people data and event data. Even 20th century official records such as birth, wedding and death certificates can include conflicting dates, parentage and even spelling. Company dates can be an even bigger nightmare.

The 19th century material is even worse.

The worst source is word of mouth, particularly from the people themselves. If they kept a daily diary then that might be accurate but recollections lead to all sorts of problems. Because of the number of dates that have only had a single corroboration, there exist many question marks against dates in the aforementioned resources... These question marks are against dates that have some documentary evidence. Quite often is up to the author of a work to pick which 'documented' date to use. I have many cases where documented dates can vary by up to 10 years and those selected are chosen in context with other dates and with reference to the date that date was written down. So birth certificates are more readily accepted for date of birth than wedding or death certificates - but a family bible entry could be regarded as even more reliable. Worst source is a workers CV where dates tend to be adjusted to fill gaps and/or to enhance a particular experience.

Surely for the interest of collecting, what counts is the period that the people worked and produced various pieces - this carries a useful message about whether the subject was a radical progressive or a follower of fashion in their work.

Accurate dates become important when there is a need to define a 'first' event from two closely competing claims - a glance at any history of invention will show that these types of battles are very commonplace and inevitably one party must be lying. Yet each party may honestly believe they are right and the decision will rest on the 'most convincing' explanation/evidence.

A piece of glass on eBay claims to be a very early example of Monart Glass dating to c. 1880 when Salvador was just two years old. This creates a problem, as according to research he did not start working in a glassworks until he was 9 years old. That he had developed Monart 7 years earlier is a major surprise and has consequences for the whole art glass movement - Gallé and the Nancy school were it seems just copying the concepts of the young Salvador Ysart. :twisted:
Frank A.
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Offline aa

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ARCHIVE? Signature K-11 R-e.56 and R-e -57, K 16
« Reply #22 on: March 03, 2005, 10:25:43 AM »
Hmm...as I am listed in Ivo's book but not in Lesley Jackson's I couldn't possibly comment...I could be accused of bias   :D
Hello & Welcome to the Board! Sometimes my replies are short & succinct, other times lengthy. Apologies in advance if they are not to your satisfaction; my main concern is to be accurate for posterity & to share my limited knowledge
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Offline Ivo

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ARCHIVE? Signature K-11 R-e.56 and R-e -57, K 16
« Reply #23 on: March 10, 2005, 07:13:18 PM »
You were promised an answer to the question at hand and here it is:

"Just returned from the Våxjö Glas Museum and guess what, we were both
right about Paul K at Reijmyre and the other glass works. Since Paul was a free lance designer he could and did work at both places. I cannot get on the glass museum site to post this message. This place has presented me with nothing but aggrevation in trying to be posted as a member. Bill Geary"

I hope we'll be able to keep Bill on board - he was rather disenchanted (to use a polite phrase) at the previous and probably got puzzled by the logon & logoff virus that plagues this board.  
Ivo
Ivo
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vidfletch

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ARCHIVE? Signature K-11 R-e.56 and R-e -57, K 16
« Reply #24 on: March 14, 2005, 10:04:04 PM »
That was a job well done! I knew we would get there in the end! What or who next? LOL!!!

Vidfletch :twisted:

David

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ARCHIVE? Signature K-11 R-e.56 and R-e -57, K 16
« Reply #25 on: March 14, 2005, 10:15:14 PM »
Thanks for all that information.
It certainly is Paul Kedelv , Ive looked at dozens of designs since you first mentioned him to me. It seems to be an  unusual shape. He has used the exact same colours in a Flygsfors piece on P 74 of Lesley Jacksons 20th C glass. But the marks on the base show it clearly to be a Reijmyre piece.
Thanks again Ive learned a lot since my first post .
David

 

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