Glass Message Board
Glass Identification - Post here for all ID requests => Glass Paperweights => Topic started by: glasstrufflehunter on October 27, 2008, 09:55:39 PM
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Take a look at this. (http://cgi.ebay.com/Faceted-XL-Millefiori-Paperweight-Glass-Murano-sticker_W0QQitemZ360101228209QQcmdZViewItem?hash=item360101228209&_trksid=p3911.c0.m14&_trkparms=72%3A1209|66%3A2|65%3A12|39%3A1|240%3A1318) I am positive this is Chinese partly because of the colours and some of the shapes, the 'honeycomb' setup and the look of this seller's other listings. There is another paperweight listed by this seller that has bundled canes.
... but I am impressed with the quality of some of the paperweights. if he wasn't asking for so much, I'd buy them for my 'fake murano' collection.
Mod: Comment moderated in line with the Board Guidelines.
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I think the canes do have a look of possibly being Chinese.
But does anyone have any references to proven Chinese weights with those canes, or with the base set with coloured spatter in that way?
We have, in several messages, discussed likely Chinese weights with "Murano / Made in Italy" stickers. However, it would be very useful to see examples of such weights that are known, with certainty, to have not been made in Murano.
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since the seller has provided plenty of good photos, I took a closer look at the bases. They are slightly out of round and sorta frosty like my newest Chinese weights.
I believe what my eyes are telling me about these weights but I think I need some glass testing equipment. I'm sure the glass formulation is different between the two countries.
What sort of equipment should I get?
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For non-professional testing of glass, beyond obvious visual clues, we are probably limited to UV Reaction and Specifc Gravity Measures. Both of these have been discussed to various degrees in this Board and a search for "uv testing" and "specific gravity" (or "sg" or "density") will show several messages. In one particular message (http://www.glassmessages.com/index.php/topic,6249.msg53399.html#msg53399), I gave some basic thoughts on UV Testing.
To make truly meaningful tests of Chinese versus Murano weights, using either method would require access to a lot of examples from both countries and from the various makers in those countries and from the various periods of manufacture. And the Chinese category should include items from Taiwan as well as the mainland.
However, the equpment required would be much easier to obtain than the weights and the knowledge of confirmed attributions.
For UV testing, I suggest a dual-wavelength light with longwave (blacklight) and shortwave bulbs. There are often differing UV reactions under the different wavelenghts and this can help to draw conclusions. Reliable lamps can be obtained through the UVP company (http://www.uvp.com/), which has a wordwide distribution network. But note that such lamps are not the "cheap and cheerful" ones readily availble through eBay.
For Specific Gravity Measures an accurate set of scales is needed. I use a beam-balance, but my results have not been wholly successful (no doubt due to my own lack of precision rather than any fault with equipment). An alternative system has been described and illustrated by Alan in this message (http://www.glassmessages.com/index.php/topic,18907.msg130645.html#msg130645).
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Thanks Kev.
I have a good start on "lots of examples" from both countries. ;D
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This might be better on the Murano board where it might catch Alex's eye. He seems to have a good idea about who is making what in Murano
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I am not clear how you distinguish some of the Murano weights from Chinese, when many 'Murano' weights have been made in China.
I have even found online the same images used on the Chinese manufacturer's website reproduced by a Murano seller claiming to sell Murano weights (the only production activity carried out in Murano was sticking on the Murano label).
However, some Murano shops are now putting in their windows posters saying 'We don't sell Chinese in this shop'. The import of Chinese paperweights and their resale in Murano has been going on for years (because it was profitable), and it is only recently that it has been acknowledged publicly in Murano , and steps taken to do anything about it (I suspect because they have been caught at it by a knowledgeable public).
Alan
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I was telling people for years but no-one believed me. I had gotten it from the horses mouth but a horse that had to remain anonymous.
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Sorry, i dont know how to do short links, but you can see here how good they are getting.
http://www.made-in-china.com/showroom/bongsa/product-detailneomfqDPRGYz/China-Art-Glassware-AAJ-071-.html
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I am not clear how you distinguish some of the Murano weights from Chinese, when many 'Murano' weights have been made in China.
I thought it had to be made in Murano to be Murano.
It's the picky details that help me to sort the fakes from the real. In the case of this paperweight it was the colour palette('skim milk' looking whites, that orange red, weaker shades of cobalt and yellow etc) , cane arrangement (Chinese millefiori is laid out in a pretty precise 'honeycomb' fashion) and finishing.
There are a couple canes that look a lot like Ferro and Lazzarini but the colours are all wrong. FL uses a lot of what I call "easter egg" shades and their red and cobalt are rich and intense. The colours in this weight are limited and typical of Chinese.
I have sizeable collections of both Murano and Chinese so I am familiar with the differences. I have a good eye for canes.
I think it was Frank I first heard say that they sold Chinese in Murano. I think even large retailers have been buffaloed. There is a large club store near me that has a glass case with Baccarat and 'Italian' glass in it. One of the vases looks suspiciously Chinese with telltale canes.
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And if you go to Baccarat, you will find a couple of shops right across the street from the real Baccarat showroom with Chinese paperweights that have a 'Baccarat' label on them (it has the shop name and address in small letters, and Baccarat in large ones)! I know Baccarat took one of them to court some time ago, but they are still at it.
Similarly, a 'Murano' label is not the same as a 'Made in Murano' label. And all the rogue traders have to do, for example, is give the base of a Chinese weight a quick polish and then they can put on a 'Made in Murano' label without being prosecuted.
Alan
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The made in Murano labels have been used and not after the first sale! For them it is a question of survival but while that is an important issue it does upset some of the people involved. It probably means that more people kept their jobs though. A difficult dilemma to be wildly critical of the situation.
For collectors it creates a challenge, but at least a label can be removed. I have lost count of the number of such challenges aired on this board and elsewhere.
Does anyone have examples of Murano weights with Edinburgh Crystal labels... another company that outsourced. I would like to add some to Scotland's Glass.
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Here (http://cgi.ebay.com/Italy-Millefiori-Heart-Paperweight-Glass-Murano-sticker_W0QQitemZ360102101236QQcmdZViewItem?hash=item360102101236&_trkparms=72%3A1205|39%3A1|66%3A2|65%3A12|240%3A1318&_trksid=p3911.c0.m14) is another by the same seller that is more obviously Chinese. Look at the base. It does show more cane complexity than is usual. It's still in the expected colours. The same sticker is on all the weights offered by this seller.
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Hi
To see just a few examples of what is available from China, try searching for glass paperweight on Alibaba.com. Or checkout the Shandong Jinding International Trading Company (http://sdjd.en.alibaba.com/).
Here is an example (http://www.alibaba.com/product-free/100067772/Handmade_Glass_Paperweight_Like_Murano_Glass_.html) of an item advertised as 'Glass paperweight like Murano Glass' (the webpage can be very slow to load).
Alan