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Glass Discussion & Research. NO IDENTIFICATION REQUESTS here please. => Bohemia, Czechoslovakia, Czech Republic, Austria => Topic started by: Ivo on November 17, 2009, 03:49:51 PM

Title: clear cased opal with asbestos applique - ID = Oldrich Lipa / Karlovarske sklo
Post by: Ivo on November 17, 2009, 03:49:51 PM
Here is a low vase; its height is 9 diameter and its diameter is 12 cms (not quite 4" high and not quite 5" across) and it is thickwalled glass. The basic colour is opalescent encased in clear, and there is an  applique also done in clear cased opalescent with inclusion of natural asbestos fiber. The pontil mark has been ground out and polished.

I have another one in the collection which is somewhat different; The height is the same but the diameter is slightly less (9x9 cm) and the bottom has been polished flat. That one has been in my collection for more than 15 years.

Anyone come across these before?

 
Title: Re: clear cased opal with asbestos applique
Post by: flying free on November 18, 2009, 08:00:48 PM
Sorry Ivo I have nothing to add, but I just wanted to say I think this is absolutely gorgeous.  I have also been scouring hundreds of pics (thousands ???) recently re opaline/opalescent and not seen anything like this at all. 
m
Title: Re: clear cased opal with asbestos applique
Post by: Ivo on November 18, 2009, 08:21:32 PM
Thanks.
Here is a picture of both pieces side by side.
Title: Re: clear cased opal with asbestos applique
Post by: flying free on November 18, 2009, 08:44:55 PM
 :mrgreen: :mrgreen:

I love white and opalescent (white only though) glass.

m
Title: Re: clear cased opal with asbestos applique
Post by: keith on November 18, 2009, 10:16:03 PM
What gets me is the applied 'blobs' why are they there,it doesn't look like decoration, more for a practical reason,
Title: Re: clear cased opal with asbestos applique
Post by: Ivo on November 18, 2009, 10:44:33 PM
doesn't look like decoration,

the largest one weighs 1.1 kilo - 2.1/2 pounds. So what sort of practical reason could there be?
Title: Re: clear cased opal with asbestos applique
Post by: keith on November 19, 2009, 01:13:46 AM
Good question,you say the pontil is polished why go to the trouble and then leave the applied piece so rough?could they be some sort of liners?
Title: Re: clear cased opal with asbestos applique
Post by: Ivo on November 19, 2009, 07:09:10 AM
Good question,you say the pontil is polished why go to the trouble and then leave the applied piece so rough?could they be some sort of liners?

the applique is done in clear cased opalescent glass - there is nothing rough about it.
Title: Re: clear cased opal with asbestos applique
Post by: Lustrousstone on November 19, 2009, 07:39:14 AM
It's the asbestos threads inside the smooth prunts that make it look rough. It's artistic. Could it be a Dutch studio?
Title: Re: clear cased opal with asbestos applique
Post by: flying free on November 19, 2009, 08:31:48 AM
http://www.sharedutchdesign.nl/holland/glassdesign.htm

Hi Ivo

If you go to the links above and click on the names that come up, an example of their work comes up on the links.
I'm not sure if you'll find who you are looking for but there are some fabulous works on there  :) :mrgreen:

m
Title: Re: clear cased opal with asbestos applique
Post by: Ivo on November 19, 2009, 10:01:09 AM
I am fairly well aware of the various studios working here but I have not seen anything like this in the last 15 years, and I've been keeping an eye open... I'd be very surprised if it turned out to be Dutch.  From the design I'd sooner think Skrdlovice, from the quality I would think Sweden or Italy... which does not make things easier.
Title: Re: clear cased opal with asbestos applique
Post by: bOBA on November 19, 2009, 11:37:30 PM
At a guess, could the difference in base finishes suggest that the polished flat base finished piece was possibly from a run in production, whereas the polished pontil example was more likely a test piece? You would bet quite a bit that these were designed by the same person. Asbestos was certainly used visibly in some Czech glass but as for elsewhere, is there much evidence for this? Also we could guess that most Asbestos use to have been discontinued far more than 15 years ago? The style of these pieces looks 1970's, would you agree? It is an interesting thread, I hope you get some information on this one!

bOBA
Title: Re: clear cased opal with asbestos applique
Post by: flying free on November 19, 2009, 11:47:45 PM
Just came across this - ok, I appreciate not the same and perhaps not even hugely similar
but to my untrained eye  :) something vaguely having a connection perhaps?

http://www.great-glass.co.uk/library/lib1c.htm

no 6477 under Poschinger in the Library section.

m
Title: Re: clear cased opal with asbestos applique
Post by: Ivo on November 20, 2009, 07:56:08 AM
Quote
a trailed opaline bowl, possibly Ferdinand von Poschinger c 1900s
I can see an issue with this description. The attribution (if it is one) may be based on their line of glass with trailing and coral dots (circa 1930s) I have never come across Poschinger glass in solid cased opalescent (defo not opaline!) glass and the description is a bit evasive.  7209 next to it which is described as 1930s is from current production, by the way - so not too convincing either.

The shape, colour and contrasting trailing in the alleged Poschinger piece are quite close, so well spotted and thank you gracefully for this link.

I think you are correct and that the difference in bottom finish is due to the age of the piece. Having a completely polished bottom would be an expensive option, the polished out pontil mark a more efficient way of working.

Meanwhile, my in-house scientist informed me that the mineral fibers in the blob (see close up) may be Rutile - which is a Titanium oxide.  But whatever they are, I'm happy these fibers are encased. I thought Asbestos was banned a long time ago.
Title: Re: clear cased opal with asbestos applique
Post by: bOBA on November 20, 2009, 08:19:02 AM
I do not know much about opaque glass but according to Wiki:

"TiO2 is also an effective opacifier in powder form, where it is employed as a pigment to provide whiteness and opacity to products such as paints, coatings, plastics, papers, inks, foods, medicines (i.e. pills and tablets) as well as most toothpastes. Opacity is improved by optimal sizing of the titanium dioxide particles."

also,

"Titanium dioxide, particularly in the anatase form, is a photocatalyst under ultraviolet light. Recently it has been found that titanium dioxide, when spiked with nitrogen ions, or doped with metal oxide like tungsten trioxide, is also a photocatalyst under visible and UV light."


The opacity of the vase and how the whole thing looks under UV could be linked to the possible use of Titanium Oxide fibres .... may be worth a UV photo... just a thought ......

bOBA
Title: Re: clear cased opal with asbestos applique
Post by: Ivo on November 20, 2009, 09:06:27 AM
It is a fascinating subject - but I doubt if the fact that Rutile happens to be cristalline Titanium has any bearing on the opacity. Rutile is used because it is inert and can withstand glassworking temperatures without burning, where most materials would just disintegrate.  Semi-translucent Opal glass used to be made by using bone ash in the mix, and at some time (1920s?) it was replaced by arsenic and/or tin. Using Titanium Dioxide as a colorant results in milk glass - bright white, and fully opaque.

Leerdam used a lot of clear cased opal glass - but as you may be able to see from the picture of a Meijdam bottle vase from the 1960s, it is thinner - but that may be due to being blown out - it is 14" = 36 cms high..

I also dug up another piece - an opal tulip (9 1/2 cm, 3.3/4") which has so far escaped attribution. It has the same highly polished flat bottom as blob number one.

The UV test yields nothing.
Title: Re: clear cased opal with asbestos applique
Post by: Ivo on March 01, 2010, 10:44:55 AM
I had a message from one of our members who pointed out the following auction:

http://cgi.ebay.nl/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=390067136045

Now I have handled one of these about 20 years ago, on a flea market. The asking price was too high for me, and when I returned 5 minutes later I saw one of the high end dealers triumphantly carry it off.

The item at auction has almost identical measures as both of mine, except the blob is opaque black and there is one on either side. There is also a black foot added.

Of course I'm very tempted to think I have 2 high end Koloman Moser pieces made by Loetz in 1903 or so.  But why do these items not figure in any of the many books and catalogues on the subject?

The search continues and your input will be highly appreciated.
Title: Re: clear cased opal with asbestos applique
Post by: Andy on March 01, 2010, 01:18:09 PM
Ivo,
some vague similarities with my bowl,
http://www.glassmessages.com/index.php/topic,26443.0.html
Skrdlovice.
 ;)
Title: Re: clear cased opal with asbestos applique
Post by: Ivo on March 01, 2010, 01:40:03 PM
I see what you mean - but the inclusions in that bowl are glass, not mineral. Nice piece, though.
Title: Re: clear cased opal with asbestos applique
Post by: flying free on June 20, 2010, 07:32:55 PM
Ivo, I saw this and thought of your vase!  However having reread this thread, is this the one you were referring to?
Hope the link works.
You will need to scroll through the preview pictures and I think it is named as Loetz.

http://www.glassfairs.co.uk/preview-gallery-20thC.html

m
Title: Re: clear cased opal with asbestos applique
Post by: dirk. on June 20, 2010, 07:37:20 PM
or this...
http://cgi.ebay.de/Koloman-Moser-Wien-Entwurf-1903-Glas-164-4007-/390067135443?cmd=ViewItem&pt=Glas_Kristall&hash=item5ad1d023d3
Title: Re: clear cased opal with asbestos applique
Post by: dirk. on June 20, 2010, 07:44:22 PM
Another thought. About one and a half year ago I saw an ebay
auction of  a piece containing a similar structured inclusion like
your item. It was described as Gralglas. Do you think, that would
an option?
BTW there´ll finally be book on Gralglas this autumn.
Title: Re: clear cased opal with asbestos applique
Post by: Ivo on June 20, 2010, 08:23:47 PM
It would be wonderful if it were Koloman Moser - but I've not seen it confirmed anywhere and yes, I've looked.... The e-bay piece is very close in colour, make and structure and I'm tempted to believe.
Gral is an option too, it would explain the modern looks - and I'm looking forward to seeing a book on Gral. Most exciting!
Title: Re: clear cased opal with asbestos applique-ID = Lipa Karlovarske Sklo
Post by: bOBA on September 27, 2010, 03:19:38 PM
I was just browsing Czechoslovak Glass Review 1969.12 and by chance found this exact bowl (and matching vase) illustrated, attributed to the Czech glass designer Oldrich Lipa, for Karlovarske Sklo. That attribution took a while!

Robert (bOBA)
Title: Re: clear cased opal with asbestos applique - ID = Oldrich Lipa for Karlovarske sklo
Post by: Ivo on September 28, 2010, 06:12:58 AM
Great news - except now trying to figure out who Karlovarské Sklo is.
Is it true what they say here - that it is Moser under another name?

http://www.artnet.com/Artists/ArtistHomePage.aspx?artist_id=651078&page_tab=Bio_and_links
Title: Re: clear cased opal with asbestos applique - ID = Oldrich Lipa for Karlovarske sklo
Post by: Lustrousstone on September 28, 2010, 06:58:11 AM
Lipa certainly worked for Moser as a designer during that time (1955-1981), according to Moser's own book. And Moser also had a Karlovy Vary glass works. That sounds like yes to me. I'll read in more detail later.
Title: Re: clear cased opal with asbestos applique - ID = Oldrich Lipa for Karlovarske sklo
Post by: Jindra8526 on September 28, 2010, 07:44:35 AM
Hi all,
I would not be so sure with Lípa attribution.
Yes Ivo, Moser A.G. was nationalised also in 1945 and for some times the name Karlovarske sklo n.p. was used. Later we can see Karlovarske sklo - Moser n.p, now only Moser again.

To be absolutely sure that this piece was designed by Lípa and for Karlovarske I would reccomend to send pictures to Moser customer service.
Moser has all catalogues from Karlovarske and will be able to attribute it exactly.

Please send us a product photo and a shot of the company’s logo on the bottom of the product at
customerservice@moser-glass.com


I would still see this issue opened.

Jindrich
www.webareal.cz/ceskoslovenskesklo
Title: Re: clear cased opal with asbestos applique - ID = Oldrich Lipa for Karlovarske sklo
Post by: Ivo on September 28, 2010, 08:08:53 AM
I've sent the article Robert found and a photograph of the vases to Moser and will let you know the outcome.
 :hi: :hi:
Title: Re: clear cased opal with asbestos applique - ID = Oldrich Lipa for Karlovarske
Post by: BLUE HARVEST on September 29, 2010, 02:56:50 PM
bOBA is correct. It is an Oldrich Lipa Offhand glass vase for Carlsbad glass -circa 1969.
Though, from memory,  I think the one pictured in the CGR is actually a candlestick. The bowl might have been on one of the front cover's.
Title: Re: clear cased opal with asbestos applique - ID = Oldrich Lipa for Karlovarske sklo
Post by: bOBA on September 30, 2010, 11:55:29 AM
Thanks Blue Harvest! Hopefully our opinions will be backed up by Moser when they reply. Your memory served you well regarding the images in Czechoslovak Glass Review, it was a candle holder (and tall vase) in the image I have. The flowers in the candleholder obscured the function, at a glance I thought it was the GMB bowl, but I was concentrating more on the pattern matching Ivo's bowls!! Hopefully Moser will corroborate the Lipa attribution. There are some slight differences between the CGR image and Ivo's bowl but I still feel the pattern is a match and that the differences are only a matter of hand made production variability. It will amaze me if Moser think otherwise.... I too sent the images to them, before I posted the attribution, we shall see what they say in due course,

Robert (bOBA)
Title: Re: clear cased opal with asbestos applique - ID = Oldrich Lipa for Karlovarske sklo
Post by: Ivo on October 01, 2010, 09:10:28 AM
From Veronika Zvonarova at Moser's customer department, here is confirmation!

Quote
"I have forwarded your pictures to the identification department and was
informed that these your glass items are from Moser glassworks but were
produced in the period 1960 – 1975 under the brand mark “Karlovarské
sklo”. The designer is Oldřich Lípa. These products were made in
different shapes and colours".


Title: Re: clear cased opal with asbestos applique - ID = Oldrich Lipa for Karlovarske sklo
Post by: Jindra8526 on October 01, 2010, 09:13:54 AM
 :hiclp: :thup:

Jindrich
www.webareal.cz/ceskoslovenskesklo
Title: Re: clear cased opal with asbestos applique - ID = Oldrich Lipa for Karlovarske sklo
Post by: flying free on October 01, 2010, 09:56:13 AM
 :hiclp:  I am so pleased you have an id now.  I LOVE those vases.
 :mrgreen: :mrgreen:

m
Title: Re: clear cased opal with asbestos applique - ID = Oldrich Lipa / Karlovarske sklo
Post by: bOBA on October 02, 2010, 10:49:26 AM
Case closed I hope! A good result.



Robert (bOBA)
Title: Re: clear cased opal with asbestos applique - ID = Oldrich Lipa / Karlovarske sklo
Post by: flying free on February 04, 2016, 09:37:18 PM
http://www.ebay.ca/itm/181347702935
did we ever work out whether this was also Moser and Oldrich Lipa - maybe from a 'series' or something?
or this one which appears sometimes with grey blobs and sometimes with black blobs
https://www.botterweg.com/Moser_Koloman/Lot-21547.aspx?tabid=59&lotid=21547&language=en-US

This one sold for Eu.1100 in 2006 - it has a reference for Koloman Moser and Loetz but I don't have the reference to check.
https://www.liveauctioneers.com/item/2658506_koloman-moser-vase-um-1903
'Weite zylindrische Gefform, flach eingezogene Schulter, zylindrischer Hals, angeschmolzene, runde Standscheibe. H. 17,5 cm. Ausfhrung: Joh. Ltz Wwe., Klostermhle. Weies Opalglas, krftig farblos berfangen, zweifache Nuppenaufschmelzung sowie Stand aus schwarzviolettem Glas.
Vgl. Werner Fenz, Koloman Moser, Salzburg und Wien 1984, Farbtafel S. 81.'


Thanks for any help :)
m
Title: Re: clear cased opal with asbestos applique - ID = Oldrich Lipa / Karlovarske sklo
Post by: flying free on February 19, 2022, 12:11:27 AM
Just an update to this thread as I own a vase in the larger wider size as shown in Ivo's picture below.

Re Ivo's cased opalescent pieces then in two different sizes shown here:
https://www.glassmessages.com/index.php/topic,30223.msg163790.html#msg163790

Both pieces are shown in the Czech Glass Revue CGR 68/10 where a full photograph of all the 5 pieces in the range is shown together in one photograph.  However the  wider bowl is not completely shown (cut off in the photograph) and the corresponding number isn't shown for it annoyingly. 
The taller narrower piece of Ivo's two  is actually a cigarette holder (Zigarettenstander) and is shown as number 54016 - by Oldřich Lpa as already noted.





With reference my most recent post reply#34 above quoted here, I've started a new thread about these vases as I also own one of the shapes.  They are also by Oldřich Lpa and are shown in a set of 4 different shapes in one photograph also in the CGR 68/10.  They are not by Koloman Moser:

http://www.ebay.ca/itm/181347702935
did we ever work out whether this was also Moser and Oldrich Lipa - maybe from a 'series' or something?
or this one which appears sometimes with grey blobs and sometimes with black blobs
https://www.botterweg.com/Moser_Koloman/Lot-21547.aspx?tabid=59&lotid=21547&language=en-US

This one sold for Eu.1100 in 2006 - it has a reference for Koloman Moser and Loetz but I don't have the reference to check.
https://www.liveauctioneers.com/item/2658506_koloman-moser-vase-um-1903
'Weite zylindrische Gefform, flach eingezogene Schulter, zylindrischer Hals, angeschmolzene, runde Standscheibe. H. 17,5 cm. Ausfhrung: Joh. Ltz Wwe., Klostermhle. Weies Opalglas, krftig farblos berfangen, zweifache Nuppenaufschmelzung sowie Stand aus schwarzviolettem Glas.
Vgl. Werner Fenz, Koloman Moser, Salzburg und Wien 1984, Farbtafel S. 81.'


Thanks for any help :)
m