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Glass Identification - Post here for all ID requests => Glass => Topic started by: jane rosemary on June 26, 2006, 08:41:52 AM

Title: Black Glass
Post by: jane rosemary on June 26, 2006, 08:41:52 AM
I have purchased a black glass bowl which is in the form of a stylised cabbage!  The only glass I can find is jetique which appers to have white spots mostly.
Does anybody know where I can get information on this black glass please?
Title: Black Glass
Post by: Lustrousstone on June 26, 2006, 11:46:13 AM
Sounds liks a Bagley Equinox - the inturned version - to me. Jettique did not always come with spots. This style came in at least two sizes
See here http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=200000677949
and here http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=300001197910
Title: Black Glass
Post by: Anne on June 26, 2006, 02:50:28 PM
The jetique with the white spots is known as Polka Dot I believe.
Title: Black glass
Post by: jane rosemary on June 26, 2006, 05:05:23 PM
Thanks for your help Christine and Anne.
My bowl is not amber coloured like the equinox vase in your first link, Christine - it is more like the second one.
At first I thought it was ceramic - the colour is solid - not at all transparent-
It is only when you touch it that you realise it is glass - very shiny, not matt nor frosted.
I could only find the Polka Dot version in my limited research.
I could try to photograph it but amd not very good yet photographing my glass with a flash.
Thanks again - Jane :D
Title: Black Glass
Post by: Lustrousstone on June 26, 2006, 07:48:01 PM
I didn't mean that your bowl was amber, just that it sounded like this shape. Equinox in both the inward turned and outward turned forms was made in clear and frosted green and blue, clear amber (and possibly pink as well), and Jettique with and without polka dots. Both the shapes I showed you were Equinox. If your isn't the inturned rose bowl version, then we need a picture to help with your ID.

Try a photo without a flash and with indirect daylight. I put a piece of white paper on my window sill, stick another piece to the window and pose the item in front of it. The window I use has the light coming over the 'shoulder', so to speak, of the item I'm photographing. Not brilliant but it lights thing well enough.

If you hold your bowl up to a bright light it should look deep purple (or possibly brown) if it is glass. Black glass is never actually black.

Bagley was a company who made many of their items in all of the colours, all of the sizes and all of the finishes and often with hand-painted decoration as well!
Title: Black Glass
Post by: Anne on June 26, 2006, 09:44:33 PM
Curiously enough the Bagley Equinox shape was also made in ceramic - my mother has one in that blue lustre pottery that was very popular at one time. I have no idea who made the ceramic versions but it has always struck me as an oddity to have the same shape/size in glass and pottery.
Title: Black Glass
Post by: KevinH on June 27, 2006, 01:15:59 AM
Anne said,
Quote
... it has always struck me as an oddity to have the same shape/size in glass and pottery ...
I suppose it's a bit like glass and metalwork from the same mould. See here for an example of a glass item made with an officially metalwork mould:
http://www.btinternet.com/~kevh.glass/pages/pressed/crownbox.htm
Title: Black Glass
Post by: Anne on June 27, 2006, 05:01:43 AM
Hmmm yes, I see what you mean Kev. That's interesting, thanks. I'd not come across these oddities before.
Title: Black Glass
Post by: Lustrousstone on June 27, 2006, 06:43:27 AM
Oh yes I'd forgotten about the ceramic Equinoxes. I've seen them too.
Title: Picture of Black Glass bowl
Post by: jane rosemary on June 27, 2006, 04:33:48 PM
I have photographed  bowl as best I can:-
http://photobucket.com
Hope this helps better than my description  - Jane
Title: Black Glass
Post by: Lustrousstone on June 27, 2006, 05:26:40 PM
Hi Jane You need to to copy and paste the url under the picture in your photobucket album. That will direct us to the correct picture
Title: Black Glass
Post by: bubbles on June 27, 2006, 05:27:18 PM
Hi Jane,
I can't see any picture! All I get is the photobucket log in.
Title: sorry guys
Post by: jane rosemary on June 27, 2006, 10:42:53 PM
Will have another o thanks for help
Title: Picture of Black Glass bowl ?????
Post by: jane rosemary on June 27, 2006, 10:45:37 PM
http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a400/purplerose4711/AMESSAGEBOARD.jpg
Title: Black Glass
Post by: Lustrousstone on June 28, 2006, 06:40:08 AM
That's better.   :D  Are you sure it's glass? I would have said it was ceramic. If you hold it right over the bulb of a desk lamp you should be able to see light through it if it is glass. My black glass looks a lovely purple
Title: Light Test
Post by: jane rosemary on June 28, 2006, 07:51:02 AM
Morning Christine,
I have done your test with a lamp and there is a slight glow through the veins of the cabbage leaf where the glass is a bit thinner. It is dark aubergine.
You made me stop and think if this is ceramic it looks like it I know. But when you touch it - there is that cold feel of glass.
I love glass so am quite intrigued about this piece.
I have never seen anything like it before.
any further thoughts - cheers Jane
Title: Black Glass
Post by: Tigerchips on June 28, 2006, 08:52:22 AM
It might be part of a salad set with this being the larger bowl. Are there any numbers on the base?

I wonder if it could be French, Arcoroc perhaps?

I'm probably wrong.  :(
Title: numbers?
Post by: jane rosemary on June 28, 2006, 09:13:16 AM
Hi Tiger,
No there are no numbers or letters.
The only distinguishing marks are flaws that are usual in pressed glass - yet there are no seam marks from a mould. The inside that is very smooth has one burst bubble on the surface and a raised blob of glass that looks yellow.
On the base there is a crease mark and all the edges on rim are very smooth not rough like some pressed glass can be.
The base is not at all worn - I don't think it can have been used - or can it be new? Does pressed glass still get made today? Showing my ignorance now!
Title: Black Glass
Post by: Bernard C on June 28, 2006, 09:18:30 AM
Quote from: "KevH"
... I suppose it's a bit like glass and metalwork from the same mould. See here for an example of a glass item made with an officially metalwork mould:
http://www.btinternet.com/~kevh.glass/pages/pressed/crownbox.htm

Kevin — without other evidence, that's only a possibility.   A registration could have been for just one design or decorative feature, for example, initially planned only in metal, but made in other materials later.   And other possibilities are known.   I think that there's a glass (III) lozenge punched into the metalwork of an early Walsh epergne.

A further possibility is an error, often found on registration lozenges, although more usually of the transposition type when working on a mirror image such as "71" for "17".   A final possibility is a simple communications error between management and the mouldmaker — they forgot to tell him to use a "III" in the handle, so he used the "I" that he was more familiar with.

If I had all the glass that has passed through my hands here, I would be able to show you just about every error or peculiarity you could dream up — and some you would have never imagined!

Quote from: "Tigerchips"
... I wonder if it could be French, Arcoroc perhaps? ...

TC — I was thinking the same, but couldn't remember the brand name!

Bernard C.  8)
Title: Black Glass
Post by: Lustrousstone on June 28, 2006, 12:13:32 PM
Glass it is then. I don't think it's English - like Tiger and Bernard - French or American are certainly possibilities. I'll have a look at some French black glass my son has and in one of my books on American glass tonight and see if I can add anything
Title: Black Glass
Post by: Tigerchips on June 28, 2006, 04:54:56 PM
I saw something similar today by Arcoroc. It was a clear glass salad bowl set in the shape of cabbage leaves. It was different to the black one because the cabbage stalk was running through the centre of the bowl. It was marked "Arcoroc, France" which could be seen on the inside of the bowl.

So they definetly do this sort of thing and judging by ebay, they also do black glass.
Title: Arcoroc
Post by: jane rosemary on June 28, 2006, 04:58:34 PM
I think you may have cracked it Tiger.  I looked at some modern Arcoroc and saw a pasta plate for sale that looks exactly like the glass of my bowl. So perhaps it is a lettuce and not a cabbage and meant for your tossed salad.
Thanks everybody for solving the mystery and being so helpful.
You learn something new every day!   Cheers Jane :D  :D
Title: Black Glass
Post by: Cathy B on July 13, 2006, 05:48:57 PM
Quote from: Lustrousstone
If you hold your bowl up to a bright light it should look deep purple (or possibly brown) if it is glass. Black glass is never actually black.

Apparently there is such a thing as completely opaque glass. See this discussion here:

http://www.glassmessages.com/index.php/topic,6316.0.html


That was new to me!

Cathy
Title: Black Glass
Post by: Lustrousstone on July 13, 2006, 06:02:05 PM
Well that's something I didn't know. I thought my claim was based on something Ivo or perhaps Bernard said in a thread I can't find now! I can remember holding up my black stand to test it.
Title: Black Glass
Post by: Connie on July 13, 2006, 06:05:23 PM
Cathy - I think you misunderstood what I said or I didn't state it clearly enough.

Technically there is no true black glass.  It is all another color if you can get the light to penetrate it.  It is like the old question of when a tree falls in the forest and no one is around, does it make a sound  :lol:

On some pieces of black glass, the glass is too thick even at the edges for light to penetrate.  I have never experimented putting a high intensity light up to the edge of my black glass but if I could get a strong enough light source to penetrate then it would be another color.
Title: Black Glass
Post by: Cathy B on July 13, 2006, 06:14:10 PM
Ah, I see! So it's true that there is no such thing as black glass; however, that doesn't mean that there is no such thing as opaque glass.
Title: Black Glass
Post by: Lustrousstone on July 13, 2006, 06:48:39 PM
Light has dawned :idea: , or should I say darkness has fallen :lol:
Title: Black Glass
Post by: Ivo on July 13, 2006, 08:24:41 PM
sorry to be a nuisance but there IS such a thing as true black glass. It is called hyalith and was first formulated by count Bucquoy in the early 1900s. Not sure how ARC formulate their black glass (yes the item IS Arcopal) but Bagley's and Leerdam black are true black....
Title: Black Glass
Post by: Cathy B on July 13, 2006, 09:52:54 PM
Thanks, Ivo, for clearing that up. :) :)  :lol:  :lol:  :lol: Correct me if I'm wrong, but I interpret that, and Connie's information, as meaning that you can't test what a piece is made of by holding it over a light.
Title: Black Glass
Post by: Lustrousstone on July 14, 2006, 06:35:16 AM
Thanks Ivo. Next mission find a piece of Bagley Jetique to test for herself. Shame most of the stuff about Bucquoy is not in English!

And the next question is do we know what colours hyalith? Iron = brown black, manganese = purple black, green black = ? and hyalith =??
Title: Black Glass
Post by: Ivo on July 17, 2006, 07:15:38 AM
Quote from: "Lustrousstone"
And the next question is do we know what colours hyalith? Iron = brown black, manganese = purple black, green black = ? and hyalith =??


Various admixtures such as basalt, according to the Egermann Crystalex book, produced the radiant black colour of the dark and infinite night skies.
Title: Black Glass
Post by: Adam on July 17, 2006, 09:41:02 AM
I'm very suspicious of the 'perfect black' concept.  If any owners just happen to break a piece, try looking through any of the fine slivers.  Better still, get someone to grind down a thin section and see what colour can be seen through it.

Adam D.
Title: Black Glass
Post by: Connie on July 17, 2006, 09:52:41 AM
That is my point exactly, Adam D.

This is becoming rather academic, but ..... :lol:

In simplified terms the color of an object is determined by the interaction of light waves and the individual's eyes who is viewing it.  By definition black is the total absorption/adsorption of light waves.  Therefore if light can penetrate through a piece of glass, then it can not appear black to the human eye.

I did hold up the light to  my black Fenton Big Cookie Jar. It showed a deep purple.  But the body of the jar is too thick for light to penetrate and it appears solid opaque black.  Together resting on the shelf they both appear to be an opaque black just like the other black Fenton pieces I have on my website. They were all made from the same forumation of black glass.