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Glass Identification - Post here for all ID requests => Glass Paperweights => Topic started by: tropdevin on November 22, 2011, 01:15:15 PM

Title: Millefiori goblet - maker?
Post by: tropdevin on November 22, 2011, 01:15:15 PM
***

The large millefiori goblet (8 inch tall, 4 1/4 inch diameter at the rim) shown below has a close concentric design at the bottom of the bowl that looks like it uses Perthshire canes.  I have not seen one of these before, and it is not in the Perthshire book..... so is it Perthshire? Is it a one-off, or a frigger, or...?

Any thoughts welcome.

Alan

(http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w155/rosismum/th_3003.jpg) (http://s175.photobucket.com/albums/w155/rosismum/?action=view&current=3003.jpg) (http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w155/rosismum/th_3003c.jpg) (http://s175.photobucket.com/albums/w155/rosismum/?action=view&current=3003c.jpg) (http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w155/rosismum/th_3003c2.jpg) (http://s175.photobucket.com/albums/w155/rosismum/?action=view&current=3003c2.jpg)
Title: Re: Millefiori goblet - maker?
Post by: Frank on November 23, 2011, 12:44:55 AM
I don't think anyone at Perthshire could have made that stem, you are looking probably at something with age. French or Italian, But what do I know....
Title: Re: Millefiori goblet - maker?
Post by: ahremck on November 23, 2011, 05:59:03 AM
What a glorious item  :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:.

I am sorry I can't help you with attribution - but isure would love to have something that exquisite in my collection.

Ross
Title: Re: Millefiori goblet - maker?
Post by: antiquerose123 on November 23, 2011, 06:02:03 AM
 :hiclp: :thup: :thup:
Title: Re: Millefiori goblet - maker?
Post by: stew2u2 on November 23, 2011, 08:42:09 AM
realy nice glass  alan the only thought i have is wishing it was mine.  :mrgreen:
i have looked in my books and went from clichy to whitefriars to bacchus to perthshire sorry i cant help
Title: Re: Millefiori goblet - maker?
Post by: Lustrousstone on November 23, 2011, 11:32:22 AM
Mike Hunter?
Title: Re: Millefiori goblet - maker?
Post by: Frank on November 23, 2011, 12:32:43 PM
If it is not Mike there is a good chance he can tell you who it might be by.
Title: Re: Millefiori goblet - maker?
Post by: alpha on November 23, 2011, 03:29:18 PM
Here are my thoughts - for what they're worth. Definitely not Mike Hunter, and definintely not antique. Canes in the glass bowl are Scottish and by my view Edinburgh Crystal (their own canes and not the Italian period when they subcontracted with Murano). Although if someone pushed hard enough I could go with Caithness or Perthshire. The canes in the foot, however, I would ascribe to some other maker, who at this point I am unable to identify (although they do have a resemblance to 3 Fiori canes from Murano).
Title: Re: Millefiori goblet - maker?
Post by: tropdevin on November 23, 2011, 05:00:17 PM
***

Thank you all for your suggestions. It is a real puzzle, this one.

I agree that the canes in the base and those in the bowl look as if they could be from different sources, and it certainly feels modern to me. That said, as I have been working through some of my many images of paperweights, I am increasingly drawn to a Perthshire attribution - possibly for the base canes too. The canes in some PP1/PP2/PP3 weights are quite like those in the bowl, and some of the mid 1980s weights have complex canes of a similar style to the base ones.

Andy - I thought that Caithness made the Edinburgh Crystal weights to begin with, before the contract went to Murano? So there may be no such thing as Edinburgh Crystal canes...but perhaps one of the Scottish glass experts could confirm or correct this?

Alan
Title: Re: Millefiori goblet - maker?
Post by: jamalpa36 on November 23, 2011, 05:43:28 PM
Hi All

I have been through Roy's Magic Box and just a different thought: Bowl Perthshire and foot Stuart Strathearn circa 1980

Roy
Title: Re: Millefiori goblet - maker?
Post by: alexander on November 23, 2011, 07:23:04 PM
How about John Deacons or Peter McDougall?

I agree the canes look "Scottish"
Title: Re: Millefiori goblet - maker?
Post by: Wuff on November 23, 2011, 07:37:03 PM
... I thought that Caithness made the Edinburgh Crystal weights to begin with, before the contract went to Murano? So there may be no such thing as Edinburgh Crystal canes...but perhaps one of the Scottish glass experts could confirm or correct this?

Correct: the 1985/86 Edinburgh Crystal weights were made at Caithness - later they imported from Murano.
Unless there are any Edinburgh millefiori weights around, of which I never have heard, there will be no "Edinburgh canes".
Title: Re: Millefiori goblet - maker?
Post by: jamalpa36 on November 23, 2011, 07:42:02 PM
Hi

Peter had a lot of Stuart Strathearn canes and one or two Perthshire !!!

Has anyone approached Peter about this Glass

Roy
Title: Re: Millefiori goblet - maker?
Post by: KevinH on November 24, 2011, 01:03:55 AM
In my opinion, none of the canes are Murano. And I don't think the piece was made outside of Scotland.

Many (or was it all???) of the canes used in the Caithness-made weights for Edinburgh Crystal were pulled by John Deacons who was contracted by Caithness to produce them. And those same canes can also be seen in a variety of John's own work. And they also look broadly similar to some original Whitefriars canes. The very "coggy" canes in two rows in the bowl are rather like those. But I do not believe that the goblet has anything to do with Edinburgh Crystal or Caithness - or even Whitefriars.

The canes in the foot that have the eight alternating canes are of a style often found in Perthshire Paperweights items and also Strathearn Glass pieces from around the 1970s. I have no idea which company first began to use that style but there are a lot of those canes around, from both companies - and in a wide range of colourways and central elements, including central crosses. Also they both used canes with individual elements using a 20-rib outer "cog", such as the in the central cane bottom right of Alan's photo of the foot.

My guess is that the glass was out of Perthshire Paperweights - but I would not be too surprised if it turned out to be by somebody else who had access to that range of canes.
Title: Re: Millefiori goblet - maker?
Post by: tropdevin on November 25, 2011, 05:16:34 PM
***

I asked Peter McDougall whether he had any ideas about the goblet, and this was his very helpful reply:

This does look like early Perthshire Canes. If it was made at Perthshire it would have been made by John Irvine, his skill in making this kind of piece especially with a blown foot was exceptional and he did make a few individual goblets like this. If it is by John Irvine it could be quite rare, the bell shaped top was his style. Sorry I can't be more certain. Nevertheless a great Goblet.

So it looks like it is a Perthshire piece after all.

Alan
Title: Re: Millefiori goblet - maker?
Post by: SophieB on November 25, 2011, 05:59:45 PM
A nice investigative research... Well done DCI Thornton  :hiclp:

SophieB

 
Title: Re: Millefiori goblet - maker?
Post by: Frank on November 30, 2011, 09:17:18 PM
... But what do I know....

Ne'er a truer word was said in jest.  ;D

John Irvine is not on my radar screen so anything you can find out about him will be of great interest
Title: Re: Millefiori goblet - maker?
Post by: tropdevin on December 05, 2011, 09:07:42 PM
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Hi Frank.

According to Dave Moir, John Irvine worked at Perthshire, and Edinburgh Crystal, and also for John Deacons - but I am afraid I did not get any dates to go with that.

Alan
Title: Re: Millefiori goblet - maker?
Post by: RAY on December 06, 2011, 01:16:58 AM
just thought ..if you put the goblet on it side and look at the stem, that's the perthshire emblem in the twist
Title: Re: Millefiori goblet - maker?
Post by: tropdevin on December 06, 2011, 06:50:09 AM
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Interesting thought, Ray.

It actually has the wrong chirality (ie is twisted the wrong way), but that could have been an error when trying to reproduce the emblem.

Alan
Title: Re: Millefiori goblet - maker?
Post by: SophieB on December 06, 2011, 10:31:36 PM
Chirality?  :o

Err! A new one on (foreign) me...

What educated people we have on this board!!!

Another reason to do paperweights: it improves my vocabulary!!!  ;D

SophieB