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Glass Discussion & Research. NO IDENTIFICATION REQUESTS here please. => British & Irish Glass => Topic started by: David E on August 31, 2005, 02:48:19 PM
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Visit to Smethwick Heritage Centre for Chance Brothers display
Further to Bernard's earlier thread (http://www.glassmessages.com/index.php/topic,2278.0.html) on Chance Brothers Glass, the following may be of interest.
Located right next to Smethwick Council Offices, the Heritage Centre is located within the converted Lodge in Victoria Park.
As can be appreciated, the displays cover all aspects of Smethwick’s industrial and social history and due to space constraints, the amount of glass on show is relatively small and confined to one cabinet. However, the items on display were of great interest, including two industrial pieces; a large (approx. 6” diameter) red ‘reflector’ with a circular deep-cut prism, and an off-cut from the lens used at Lizard Point lighthouse! Not sure what the reflector was used for (like a massive brake light), but it would an excellent dish. :)
At this stage I would like to offer my thanks to Dr. Delia Garrett, the Curator, and her colleague who kindly allowed me to take photographs. While I’m not allowed to publish these without permission, if this is granted I will post the news on this topic thread. Delia was very informed on Chance Brothers and I have also encouraged her to join in this topic.
Some of the photographs were, in any event, slightly blurred due to having to take them without flash — taking clear glass, on clear glass shelves, with clear glass in the background and through a clear glass window does not lend itself to good photography. On top of this the display revolves, so I think you get the picture (or not, as the case may be!) :? The good news is that I have a more advanced camera with manual control so, if allowed, I will revisit and take a tripod…
On a better note, Delia did show me two of the only books on Chance Brothers:
1. A History of the Firm of Chance Brothers & Co. Glass and Alkali Manufacturers, first published c.1919 – I believe this is mentioned in the other Chance thread.
2. Mirror for Chance, c.1951[/list]
Both titles are out of print, but it might be possible to obtain copies through an online bookseller. The former was probably of limited interest (to me), as I don’t believe art glass or glassware was produced by Chance until after WWII – I beg to be corrected here.
The second, though, contained some fascinating photographs of glass production at Chance Brothers in the 1950s and included a short chapter on Tableware including, of course, Fiestaware. A pity this particular topic wasn’t covered in more depth, but some of the industrial photos were amazing, such as one worker spinning a very thin, 4 foot (1.3m) diameter “microscope cover glass”* on the end of what appears to be a pontil rod! Gulp! :shock:
* I think this is the glass used in microscope slides, so that should give you an idea. The spinning action stretches the glass to become ultra-thin prior to being spliced.
Additionally, Delia very kindly photocopied a list comprising 15 pages of the Centre’s entire Chance Glass collection (most in storage and about 500 pieces I believe). I have also been offered the chance to come back out of season when the Centre is closed, to view the remaining stock: needless to say I will certainly follow this up.
On a historical end point, Chance Bros. ceased production in 1981 after 150 years of glass-making production and the rights to produce Fiestaware was bought by Mr. Michael Joseph who continued making art glass and glassware using the same techniques pioneered by Chance. The company has now passed to his sons who have renamed it ‘Joseph Joseph’ (reminiscent of John Walsh Walsh!) and glassware can still be bought today, some looking quite similar to Fiesta, from various outlets. It is noticeable that these later pieces are much thicker: no doubt a result of Health & Safety!
Any questions, please just ask.
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Useful link
http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index/ENG-BLACK-COUNTRY/2000-09
scroll down to # [B.C.] Chance's Glassworks (repost for new subs) by Dave Ogden, 8 pages.
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Thanks for this Frank :D
Seems to cover in quite some detail the early history of Chance Brothers, with links to Nailsea and British Crown Glass Co.
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:D
Thanks very much for this very interesting item!
I'm familiar with microscope cover slips - they're much, much, much thinner than microscope slides - they're the tiny little squares that you put on top of the specimen on the slide, and they're considerably less than 0.5mm thick - they almost break when you try to pick them up! I can't imagine this expanded to such a great size on a rod! :shock::shock::shock:
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Many thanks to DenCill for his generous review of our Heritage Centre. I would be delighted to welcome any other visitors to the Centre in search of Chance glassware, and reiterate the point that we have a considerable collection of Fiestaware in store which I would be happy to allow access to. Very interesting to discover how many enthusiasts of Chance glassware there are.
Also, just to make it clear, we are indeed an independent charitable trust working very hard to safeguard Smethwick's proud and diverse heritage with no ongoing monetary support from our local council! All support given is very much appreciated. Thanks!
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My thanks to Delia (curator at Smethwick Heritage Centre) for this information.
I would like to add that all items are held in Trust for the public and so the Centre has a responsibility to allow public access to the collection — I understand there are something like 500 pieces of Chance glass on the premises!
The Centre also has a few items of Ruskin pottery, which are very collectable pieces because of the unique glazes used (apologies for being slightly off-topic!)
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At the Woking Glass Fair we saw a stand with several pieces of Chance glass on and I recognised a piece and said, "Oh look! I know that piece! It's called Calypto." I even took a pic - it's the little square plate on the right - http://tinypic.com/biqasj.jpg
However, the stallholder overheard me and said, "No, it's called Calypso." I asked her, wasn't it in fact 'Calypto' because the design was based on Eucalyptus leaves? ( I actually recognised the design because we have a Eucalyptus tree in the garden!) However, she looked at me as if I was barmy and said, No, she was certain it was 'Calypso' :roll:
Please can some Chance expert tell me if I was right, or if I really am barmy? :oops:
Leni
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Please can some Chance expert tell me if I was right, or if I really am barmy?
Heaven forfend, Leni :wink:
No, you are right, it is called 'CALYPTO' — huge pats on the back :lol:
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I also just noticed a floral plate in the foreground of your photo (http://tinypic.com/biqasj.jpg) Leni, with the wire handle. Isn't that the floral pattern you're interested in, Max?
Also similar to the wire handle fitted to my mother's Calypto cake dish (about 8-9" diameter):
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v288/dencill/chance-calypto1.jpg
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The plates with the white spiral line pattern in Leni's pic... are they Chance as well? ...does anyone know if these have a Pattern name please?
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Anne, this is the 'Swirl' pattern.
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Great, thanks David. I spotted two in a charity shop yesterday (didn't buy them as I'm not a great Chance fan really) but was just curious as to whether they were Chance etc...
I was also wondering, was it Chance that made the commemorative glass plates for the Queen's Silver Jubillee in 1977? My mother bought me one at the time, which I still have, in blue and silver - I seem to recall they came in red and silver as well, and are about the size of a saucer.
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Incidentally, all the patterns fall under one category: Fiesta.
Great, thanks David. I spotted two in a charity shop yesterday (didn't buy them as I'm not a great Chance fan really) but was just curious as to whether they were Chance etc...
The glass sort-of grows on you and I've become a collector by 'chance' (ho,ho). This morning I took delivery of an excellent ruby 'Swirl' dish with gold trails. Very nice indeed!
I was also wondering, was it Chance that made the commemorative glass plates for the Queen's Silver Jubillee in 1977? My mother bought me one at the time, which I still have, in blue and silver - I seem to recall they came in red and silver as well, and are about the size of a saucer.
Yes they did. In fact the red/gold one (not sure about silver) is on display at the Heritage Centre. You'll find that plenty of float glass with gilt edging can often be attributed to Chance and they were very prolific manufacturers from 1950-1980.[/quote]
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Great, thanks David. I spotted two in a charity shop yesterday (didn't buy them as I'm not a great Chance fan really)
Anne, go back and buy them...check out the prices on Ebay for that design. :shock:
David, Eeek! NO! That is NOT the pattern I like! :x :lol: I'll take a snap of my favourite one and add it later. :D
And remember: Chance can be a fine thing. :roll:
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Quote:
Great, thanks David. I spotted two in a charity shop yesterday (didn't buy them as I'm not a great Chance fan really)
Anne, go back and buy them...check out the prices on Ebay for that design.
No: Anne, go back and buy them for me!
David, Eeek! NO! That is NOT the pattern I like! I'll take a snap of my favourite one and add it later.
I did think it was a bit flowery. Not my style either I hasten to add! :wink: But the subtle geometric designs by Margaret Casson are incredibly retro.
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I would be delighted to welcome any other visitors to the Centre in search of Chance glassware, and reiterate the point that we have a considerable collection of Fiestaware in store which I would be happy to allow access to.
Thank you Delia, if I lived nearer, you wouldn't be able to keep me out! :D
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Here's my favourite Chance pattern...groovy 70's colourway and trippy psychadelic flowers...yeah man!
http://tinypic.com/biuybp.jpg
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:D
Miller's Guide 2005 says this pattern is '60's, but not whether it is early or late. :D
I think my star piece of Chance is a rectangular plate with a pattern printed on each side of the plate. It's the same pattern, but in a different colour on each side. I think it's a Margaret Casson design, but I don't know what it's called. Michael still has the camera in Hungary and the plate is in the attic, so I'm sorry - no piccies :cry::cry::cry:
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Michael still has the camera in Hungary and the plate is in the attic, so I'm sorry - no piccies
Look forward to seeing it! :shock:
My 'star' piece was only received yesterday; a red diamond dish with the 'Swirl' pattern overlaid in gold:
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v288/dencill/Chance/t-chance-red01.jpg) (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v288/dencill/Chance/chance-red01.jpg) :: (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v288/dencill/Chance/t-chance-red03.jpg) (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v288/dencill/Chance/chance-red03.jpg)
The red is a real pig to photo and the backlit one is a little too bright so not a true representation.
Also have an unusual serviette holder in white on clear:
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v288/dencill/Chance/t-chance-swirl1.jpg) (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v288/dencill/Chance/chance-swirl1.jpg)
:shock: click thumbnails to enlarge :shock:
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:D
Miller's guide says the serviette holder is c1955, Margaret Casson, "MHT" price (in the guide) £45-50. :D
I DO like the red and the black with the gold swirls. I've only got plain white on clear bits. :(
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:D
Miller's guide says the serviette holder is c1955, Margaret Casson, "MHT" price (in the guide) £45-50. :D
I DO like the red and the black with the gold swirls. I've only got plain white on clear bits. :(
Wow, thanks for the price guide, Sue! OK, mustn't get too excited as it is a guide... take some tablets, have a lie down... :) Are you working from the Dorling Kindersley (DK) Miller's Collectables Price Guide?
Just to clarify on the photos: the 'black' dish is the red one! I couldn't photo it properly (always have this trouble with red glass), but this design is the 'Swirl' pattern, as is your "white on clear bits" item. :D
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Now look what you guys have done to me! :roll: I've just come back from a boot fair with five, yes five!, pieces of Chance glass... and I don't even like the wretched stuff!!! :shock:
One is a Calypto design sandwich tray, but the other four are a different design... has leaves and a butterfly on it... does this sound in any way familiar? I'll try and get some pics later... have to go visiting dad this aftie now he's been let out of hospital. :)
Oh, BTW, also found a Davidson "William and Mary" design cracker/biscuit jar with lid, a satin mustard yellow flower bowl - sounds awful but isn't really!, an indigo blue jug (Scandi-looking) and an uranium green butter dish with a cow on the top.
It's been ages since I went to a boot fair.. it's on again tomorrow, so guess where I'll be...??? :lol:
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Now look what you guys have done to me! I've just come back from a boot fair with five, yes five!, pieces of Chance glass... and I don't even like the wretched stuff!!!
Now Anne, you wouldn't have bought it unless you like it :wink:
But many people are selling Chance glass very cheaply because they have no idea what they've got, however there is a growing market for it. It would appear that the 'intaglio' versions of this glass is very collectable and was only produced for a very short time, during the early 1950s.
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:D
Yes, David, it's the DK version. (pp. 306-7)
I've just noticed :oops::oops::oops: - there's a white-flashed intaglio-cut rectangular plate (on it's own) c1955, 11.5" high (?sic), price guide £70-80.
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Yes they did. In fact the red/gold one (not sure about silver) is on display at the Heritage Centre. You'll find that plenty of float glass with gilt edging can often be attributed to Chance and they were very prolific manufacturers from 1950-1980.
Just spotted a red/silver one on eBay in it's original box with label David: http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=7709471972 - this is the same shape/size/design as mine but mine is blue not red.
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I've just noticed - there's a white-flashed intaglio-cut rectangular plate (on it's own) c1955, 11.5" high (?sic), price guide £70-80.
Very interesting. I'd like to see one of these 'in the flesh'.
Not sure about the 'height' though - must be real difficult balancing it on its edge :lol:
Just spotted a red/silver one on eBay in it's original box with label
Thanks very much, Anne :D
I might buy that for the Centre as it's still sealed. I'm thinking this colour must be the right one, although my photo does look gold! Makes sense seeing it celebrated a Silver Wedding... :oops:
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Finally a piece of Chance I like and designed by Margaret Casson to boot.
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=7355556991
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Finally a piece of Chance I like and designed by Margaret Casson to boot.
Peter, I agree with you: the Giraffe Carafe is quite an iconic piece but teamed up with other pieces in the Swirl pattern and you'll probably appreciate the design better :)
I have since located the current manufacturers, Joseph Joseph, who took over the operation:
http://www.josephjoseph.com
A Flash-based site, so rather "decorative", but interesting to view their current range. Although the gilt edging has gone, it's surprising how designs from the 1960s can still hack it today! :shock:
Based in Tower Wharf, perhaps a future venue for the London Glassoholics? Take your wallet, Max! :lol:
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:D:D:D
Hello Peter, I've got the glasses to go with your carafe!
http://tinypic.com/e9uauc.jpg
http://tinypic.com/e9uaz8.jpg
I don't think the carafe would hold enough to fill all 6 of them, they're huge! (Sadly, one has a tiny chip) :cry:.
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David said:
I have since located the current manufacturers, Joseph Joseph, who took over the operation:
http://www.josephjoseph.com
When you say they've taken over, do you mean they're operating from the same premises? Sorry to seem dim, but as you said, there's not much Chance left in Joseph Joseph, is there?
I've got a Calypto Giraffe Carafe (mad name or what??) and a Swirl Giraffe Carafe (did I dream they're called Giraffe Carafes??), but I have no glasses. Maybe people bought them in a set, used the glasses, but didn't use their giraffe carafes because they thought the name was just too ridiculous. :lol:
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David said:I have since located the current manufacturers, Joseph Joseph, who took over the operation:
http://www.josephjoseph.com
When you say they've taken over, do you mean they're operating from the same premises? Sorry to seem dim, but as you said, there's not much Chance left in Joseph Joseph, is there?
Sorry I wasn't very clear :oops:
The rights to Fiestaware was bought up by Michael Joseph who continued manufactured from Birmingham, but not the same premises. Joseph Joseph (twin sons of Michael - or grandsons?) have a studio and showroom at Tower Wharf, but their manufacturing base is still in Birmingham.
But if you visit the web site you'll see examples that definitely draw influence from some of the original Fiestaware designs - look at the Optic Snack range, for example. Also click on Table Deluxe and see the design that pops up at the top! Hmm, familiar... :)
They do plenty of kitchenware and even splashbacks for the cookers 8)
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I don't know if this may be of interest, but it gives a link to a history of the Chance Glass company... scroll down to the File Download section near the bottom. The rest of this page is interesting as well. :) http://www.search.revolutionaryplayers.org.uk/engine/resource/exhibition/standard/default.asp?resource=2032
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Very interesting link Anne, thanks. I think this would really appeal to people like Bernard who are interested in the architectural and industrial use of glass. I'm not sure when they started to produce tableware, but I think it was much later.
I would also like to know more about the history of Chance until they closed in 1981 (a year before Whitefriars — how are the mighty fallen...) but I think the books mentioned in this thread will be extremely hard to get hold of.
BTW, Anne, did you know you're 8 away from your 1,000th post? :wink:
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Following that link a little further I also came across this:
http://www.search.revolutionaryplayers.org.uk/engine/theme/default.asp?theme=88
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David — I am interested in all aspects of glass as a material. I don't think you can hope to appreciate its unique qualities if you restrict yourself to any one particular use or glassmaking process.
Bernard C. 8)
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David — I am interested in all aspects of glass as a material. I don't think you can hope to appreciate its unique qualities if you restrict yourself to any one particular use or glassmaking process.
Bernard, I'm also interested in all aspects of glass, and I soak up as much glass information like a sponge. Unfortunately my brain, like a sponge, has got very sodden lately and simply can't take anymore! :wink:
However, on a related subject, did you see my other posting? See:
http://www.glassmessages.com/index.php/topic,2700.0.html
Some books that I'm sure would be of interest.
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Glad it was of interest David. Also the related links you found. I'll add these to Glassoholic for future reference as well. :) PS I hadn't noticed the proximity of post 1000 - I'm one closer now! :wink: (Do I get a badge when I go past 1000???) :lol:
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Glad it was of interest David. Also the related links you found. I'll add these to Glassoholic for future reference as well. :) PS I hadn't noticed the proximity of post 1000 - I'm one closer now! :wink: (Do I get a badge when I go past 1000???) :lol:
Well, both you and Leni have passed that magical number now! You both get a Golden Cornflake :)
The links I provided were direct to the books which, of course, will be redundant when PostSscript Books have sold out. As an idea though, your links library could contain common searches for glass books from the more popular online book sellers.
For example:
http://www.psbooks.co.uk/Title.asp?Title=glass&pg=Title+Search&ur=Search.asp?fld=Title
... calls up all their 'glass' books, although there will obviously be references to titles that are not required (like "The Glass Enclosure" on jazz legend, Bud Powell? Uh?), but at least it would provide an instant link to possible favourite searches.
Just a thought.
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Interesting thought David, thanks. I'll check this out and see what I can do. :)
I have already starting listing individual titles based on suggestions and mentions here on the board. If anyone has any other titles to add then please let me know and I'll add those too (my e-mail address is added in Profileso you should see an e-mail button below my posts now). I still have the CD Books (such as Glen's Sowerby ones) to add as well, plus another raft of book links found in various places.
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David - if you are there :lol: Did you see anything like this vase at the Smethwick Heritage Centre? I know from your comments following your visit, that Chance Bros. made prism glass for lighthouses and also produced household items during WW2. I bought this vase today because it fascinated me. It looks like a prism - very much like one seen in a lighthouse. It also has "CELERY" etched on it. I meant to take a pic. of it in sunlight because it looks great - refracting light, so the pic. here isn't the best.
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y195/glassie/prism003.jpg
Regards - Anne E.B. :wink:
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Anne, I saw one just like that a few weeks back at a boot fair round here. No idea who made it though. Never thought that it may be Chance.
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Anne x 2 — Definitely pressed glass by Chance; listed as such in Hollowood, Bernard, The Things We See — No. 4, Pottery & Glass, Penguin, 1947. I had never made the connection between lighthouses and this range. Clever.
I am sure I have seen another source with this pattern named, but I can't remember which publication.
Dodsworth No. 235 is a Utility Dish by Chance "moulded with horizontal rectangular panels". This was shown (launched?) at the 1935 British Art in Industry Exhibition, and was designed by Reginald* Goodden. I am fairly sure it's the same pattern, but I can't be absolutely certain.
Bernard C. 8)
* Corrected in a later publication, see a subsequent reply.
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Thanks Bernard, most informative.
Whilst pondering Chance I happened (nearly said chanced then!) across another mention of Chance Brothers in Smethwick. I'm currently reading Martin Brayne's book, The Greatest Storm, about the devastation caused in 1703 by the storm that hit the south of the UK.
In the very last few pages he mentions that the great West Window of St Mary's Church, Fairford in Gloucestershire, was restored by Chance Bros. sometime after 1860. He says "Restoration work was carried out by Chance Brothers of Smethwick who used entirely new glass".
Further reading online indicates that the upper part of the window was subjected to this repair by Chance, and that they did not change the design, just used new glass to replace the old in the same style. I had not made the connection between Chance and stained glass until reading this.
Incidentally, I was also a little surprised to find there is a church in Cumbria which has Whitefriars stained glass windows. I am going to go take a look as soon as I can do.
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Anne & Anne — I've found it. Jackson C20 Factory Glass gives it as Spiderweb, designed by Robert Goodden, launched 1934.
Bernard C. 8)
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Hi all,
The Chances archive, specifically with regard to their stained glass, I think I have flagged up before, as being in the possession of our old friends Pilkington's at St Helen's...............
With regard to the production of lenses, for signalling, railways, (1845) admiralty use, indeed, political discussion as to whether Chances should open an optical glass factory in Czarist Russia in 1916, in the middle of WWI, hey go no further than the National Archives, the first place to look, that last that many do......
regards,
Marcus
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Many thanks Anne for your interesting comments (I'll have to get hold of that book!) - and Bernard for identifying it as Chance, as I suspected. Fascinating stuff. A great buy for £1.29 !!! I wonder if Reginald Goodden had anything to do with the designs for prism glass for lighthouses? (I'll have to get hold of the Jackson book also!) Interesting how functionalism influences art/aesthetics and of course vice versa. Difficult to separate at times. :P
Regards - Anne E.B. :P
Edited to include thanks to Marcus also. :D
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According to Evans, there are as many as nine churches and other properties in Cumbria that could be fitted with Whitefriars stained glass, although the records do not indicate which commissions were actually installed. None of these designs carry the designer's name. Date range 1924–62. See the book for a detailed list.
Further information on Chance at the Cambridge Glass Fair (http://www.cambridgeglassfair.com/exhibitions/pastexhibitions/2003-09-chance.htm) website.
Bernard C. 8)
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Thanks Bernard, I shall have to check this book out, it's one I should have on my shelf and haven't. The one I was meaning was, I think, Aldingham. I'll have to check tomorrow.
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Bernard, I think I've found a companion for my Chance celery vase, and may be this is like the one that Anne saw and wished later she had bought. Could this perhaps be the Utility Dish you previously referred to? (Spiderweb pattern based on lighthouse lenses - designed by Robert Goodden).
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y195/glassie/chance002.jpg
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y195/glassie/chance004.jpg
Here it is alongside the vase. It has a wonderful ring to it. I think its quite beautiful and to my mind would sit well alongside Scandinavian makes of the day. Very undervalued I think :?
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y195/glassie/chance005.jpg
Regards - Anne E.B. :wink:
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Nice find, Anne. You can see now why they called it Spiderweb.
Now for other examples of the range — there is a milk or cream jug shown in Jackson, which could imply a sugar, and two more sizes of bowl shown in Hollowood. I could be wrong, but I have vague memories of a covered butter and a lemonade set. ... and look out for SOS lidded cube sugars with integral sprung tongs — as both Davidson and Walsh made them (yes, Walsh did make pressed glass tableware), there is a chance that Chance also made them in Spiderweb.
Bernard C. 8)
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*NEW* Visit to Smethwick Heritage Centre
I have an appointment to visit the Centre on 3rd February to further research Chance glass and Fiestware in particular. THis time I will have access to all the glass they have stored! However, I still might not be able to publish photographs but as this work is more of an academic nature perhaps they will grant permission. "S/He who doesn't ask, doesn't get..."
If you have any queries you'd like me to ask Delia, the Curator, just let me know.