Glass Message Board
Glass Identification - Post here for all ID requests => Glass => Topic started by: Cosi on May 25, 2017, 06:23:52 AM
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I have this pretty etched jug which is 16cm high and about 12cm at its widest point. It has a ground/polished depression on he base indicative of the pontil rod, so I am guessing it is quite old.
There is a crack on the bottom of the handle where it is attached to the body of the jug.
I would love to know more about it and also if there is a way of repairing the damage sympathetically?
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hi - looking at your jug I think we're back to "this is wheel engraved and not acid etched". With a loupe/lens, look at those matt decorated areas and you should see the scratches created by what would have probably been a small copper wheel. Some form of past or liquid grinding compound would have been used, since copper on it's own isn't able to grind glass. Think I can see some larger circular or oval lenses - these would have been made using a larger grinding wheel, and then polished.
In this instance it is your handle that is more of a guide to age - it's a strap handle and would have been attached starting at the bottom and then taken to the top and stuck on while still plastic - indicating your jug was probably made before 1860/70. After this date, handles were attached in reverse order, apparently it makes for a stronger join between jug and handle.
The depression under the foot is often an indication of quality, but is also seen on many pieces of everyday glass that were made well in towards the middle of the C20.
Had this damage occurred prior to the 1920s, it may have been repaired if the owner considered it to of some value, and not always monetary.
Holes would have been drilled through the handle and into the body of the jug and a double ended staple or rivet inserted, sometimes glue would have been used as well. You can still find jugs, mugs, tankards and similar where this sort of repair has been made - although possibly seen more often on ceramics.
Unless you're going to use this for breakfast, dinner and tea tables, then I'd leave well alone and admire the jug for what it is, faults and all.
Of course you might contact a ceramics expert who quite likely quote you for the repair, but probably going to cost a lot more than the purchase price of the jug. :)
As to actual date - difficult - could be anywhere from 1840 to 1870 if I had to guess, but a nice find whatever.
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The crack in the handle is very common, i would think this has to be expected of old glass, it's always in the same place so i would think a fault due to the actual making or expansion or tension of glass over time at that stress point, i'm very limited to my examples at the mo but have about 10 jugs with the same problem, some repaired some not, as Paul states it could be old or new but my feelings are they are all old repaired or not.
I would agree with Paul on a date age range
This one is 10 inches in height.
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HI Paul S
I think we may be a little befuddled here ,
" it's a strap handle and would have been attached starting at the bottom and then taken to the top and stuck on while still plastic - indicating your jug was probably made before 1860/70."
Handles pre 1860/70 or so were attached top to bottom, after that from bottom to top ,however items with handles made from top to bottom will also be found on items made after 1860/70 so the method of handle attachment in it'self is not really an indication of age .
cheers ,
Peter.
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thanks Peter - obviously no one else reading my posts to pick me up - I'd forgotten which way round, and thought I had it right.
That approximate date line, indicated by attachment of handles, seems to have found favour with some authors, and has been quoted on the Board here on many occasions - do you mean we now have to ditch such a presumed well founded piece of historical criteria. I thought by the way that your cut-off period was the end of the Georgians - 1820 - 30 ............. can we look forward to more replies from this new and extended C19 interest. ;) ;)
Seriously though, like some other dating techniques based on visual aspects, this particular piece shows more than just the handle to indicate the period suggested - the style of wheel engraving being another - so perhaps a combination of features to help. Alternatively, what might your suggestion be for a date guide here?
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HI Paul,
" do you mean we now have to ditch such a presumed well founded piece of historical criteria. "
Nope!!! not at all, the general rule is a I pointed out, however rules are continually broken , but what you wont find is a pre mid 19th c piece with a bottom to top handle.
"I thought by the way that your cut-off period was the end of the Georgians - 1820 - 30 ............. can we look forward to more replies from this new and extended C19 interest."
Correct, my main period of interest is Georgian and before , but handles are a favourite of mine in all there forms ,yes I know , handles !!!,
As for more comments on later pieces no!!! not in general , I leave that to those who are far more versed in that period than I am, unless it is Stourbridge Cameo Glass , my less known love from the glass world.
As for the OP I would suspect pre 1860 but as you say " so perhaps a combination of features to help. " or it could be later with an older style handle, which I am sure all those who focus on later 19th c pieces will confirm , the top to bottom handle did not disappear completely when the general method of application was changed from top down to bottom up.
cheers
Peter.
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Once again I am learning so much. Thanks for everyone's insights and knowledge. Whereas before, I just thought the jug was pretty- now it is presenting itself to me as pretty and interesting! :-)
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How can you tell the difference between which end starts first on the handle and is this only for a strap handle like the one on my jug?.
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brucebanner I think yours might be from Harrach btw
m
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Yes I think your right I have seen a few pieces in the same pattern, it must have been popular.
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If you have the time Peter :) - waiting for your expertise agen on 'andles for question from Chris.
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The thickest blobbiest end is where the handle starts. It thins out toward the finish
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HI ,
Some top to bottom handles, I don't have any bottom to top but would imagine other can oblige.
cheers ,
Peter
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Some more .
And some may find this video interesting ,
http://renvenetian.cmog.org/object/small-cup-two-handles
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thanks .......... good pix and stunning glass - at least on the older ones you can see that they mostly end with a curly finial at the bottom, which confirms that they started at the top, although on occasions that final curl gets knocked off/lost.
These are very different to late C19 and virtually all C20 handles where the cross section is mostly round and often very thick at the bottom - at least those that are made from the bottom up.
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I think dating a handle has more to do with what it's fixed to, i'm on my knees at the mo example wise but here are five recent ones, a modern piece of Murano, a late Vic oil lamp, a piece of modern egyptian glass, a webbs creamer 1960's in amethyst and custard early Victorian i would think.
If you google Murano jug you will see hundreds top to bottom, bottom to top.
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how do you know the jug is modern Murano please?
What is the pontil mark like?
m
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It had a sticker on it, the bottom is polished flat and has a rough pontil.
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when I was making mugs and handles, I most always attached the handle at the bottom and finished at the top. I think many of these cracked because they were not properly annealed years ago or the piece was put away too cold and the attachment area was still hotter than all the rest and in so doing created stress. Before the use of hand torches that are used extensively now, it was more difficult to keep everything at the same temperature as it was placed in the annealer.
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Thanks Chris :)
m