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Glass Identification - Post here for all ID requests => Glass => Topic started by: chriss on September 20, 2012, 10:52:04 PM

Title: Large iridescent gold bowl info please?
Post by: chriss on September 20, 2012, 10:52:04 PM
Hi  :)
I've got a large gold iridescent bowl which is 11" wide x 3" tall and has no makers mark or labels, but the entire recess to the base has been ground and polished out like a very large polished and ground pontil mark leaving a 3/8" raised margin around the edge. I bought it in an antiques centre in Wales last year, the seller thought it was from about 1920-30s but wasn't sure. Can anyone give me any ideas to it's origin or any other info please? Thankyou  ;D
Title: Re: Large iridescent gold bowl info please?
Post by: Ivo on September 21, 2012, 06:44:21 AM
I have one in that shape in opaque blue which turned out to be Cambridge glass, and Northwood made something undistinguishable too, around 1922. It goes with a black plinth which should be most effective. I am just wondering, pressed glass with a strong iridescence - does it count as Carnival?

Wonderful photographs by the way - congrats.
Title: Re: Large iridescent gold bowl info please?
Post by: chriss on September 21, 2012, 06:47:08 AM
Thankyou  ;D ;D
Title: Re: Large iridescent gold bowl info please?
Post by: flying free on September 21, 2012, 07:17:05 AM
I was wondering whether it might be worth looking at the Shetlar stretched glass site - just for comparison of shapes and sizes between the various glass makers.
If you type in Shetlar glass into google it should come up.  It's an excellent resource.
Ivo, I think of these as carnival glass because of those reasons but I don't know if they are classified as such.
I think carnival glass collectors keep stretch glass for instance as a separate category, but that might be because of the way they are made, i.e. in a different sequence of iridisation to the way carnival is made  :-\
I'm sure I read that somewhere
m
Title: Re: Large iridescent gold bowl info please?
Post by: chriss on September 21, 2012, 09:04:26 AM
Thanks for your help :) I'm no specialist, just love and collect iridescent glass, but have never gone for carnival glass before though I have seen plenty. Is it pressed then as i thought, with the polished out pontil mark that it was blown and never linked it to carnival? It has the stretched glass surface which I know is similar to some carnival glass surfaces, but I always thought (or hoped) it was different... steuben or quazel gold aurene  ::) ;D 
Title: Re: Large iridescent gold bowl info please?
Post by: Ivo on September 21, 2012, 10:53:41 AM
from the stand ring you can see it was pressed. The piece never was taken up on a pontil rod, and there is no pontil mark. Steuben and Quezal never pressed their glass and will therefore always have a pontil mark.
Title: Re: Large iridescent gold bowl info please?
Post by: chriss on September 21, 2012, 11:26:23 AM
Thankyou for your help  ;D
Title: Re: Large iridescent gold bowl info please?
Post by: flying free on September 21, 2012, 12:07:16 PM
I think that stand ring is called a Maree ?(SP?) and that the bow was stuck up and cupped.
There is an explanation on here somewhere from James Measell  I will have a ook for the link (sorry my 'l' key is sticking grrrr)
Edited to addd
There is some more information here
http://www.glassmessages.com/index.php/topic,44461.msg247685.html#msg247685
m
Title: Re: Large iridescent gold bowl info please?
Post by: chopin-liszt on September 21, 2012, 04:45:04 PM
I'm having personal doubts as to whether this could be described as Carnival....
I wouldn't. I'm not a Carnival glass collector and may well be wrong.
I think this is too subtle, too goldy, not bright and shiney.

Title: Re: Large iridescent gold bowl info please?
Post by: chriss on September 21, 2012, 05:52:07 PM
Thanks for your info everyone. I have looked at the link flying free (thankyou :D) has put on, but the base is different to it. There is an additional outer rim on that one whereas mine is just one raised outer area (or ground out centre?) but I don't know if this is relivant?
Chopin-liszt (thankyou too :D) yes the lustre is a very subtle, rich iridescence. I believed it wasn't carnival glass and no glass seller in antique fairs that have seen this piece have mentioned carnival glass but I'm no specialist  ???
I'm looking into the Shetlar, Cambridge and Northwood glass but no luck yet :)
Title: Re: Large iridescent gold bowl info please?
Post by: jsmeasell on September 22, 2012, 10:33:48 PM
Very interesting item. Can you see joint marks near the marie? If so, how many? If no joint marks are present, this was likely pressed in a shell mould that gets flipped 180 degrees (after the glass sets up) so that the "catching out boy" can get it placed on a wide paddle. Then, it's stuck up on a large diameter punty rod with a flat head (the diameter of the head would be the same size as the area that is now seen as ground and polished). Once it's stuck up, it's reheated, iridized with a spray of metallic salts, and then taken to a skilled finisher to be cupped (hence, the stretch glass look that happens when an item is iridized BEFORE it's finished to its final shape). Then, it's cracked off the punty rod and taken to the lehr. Once annealed, that bottom area can be ground and polished. Fenton made a lot of plates this way in the 1920s-30s. I hesitate to speculate as to a maker, but it could be someone like Pairpoint or Durand in the USA, although I suspect its origin will turn out to be European. 
Title: Re: Large iridescent gold bowl info please?
Post by: chopin-liszt on September 23, 2012, 01:06:03 PM
 :)
Thank you for this wonderful, clear and very interesting explanation of the process, Mr. Measell!
Title: Re: Large iridescent gold bowl info please?
Post by: flying free on September 23, 2012, 01:11:07 PM
Thank you from me also -  your explanations make it much easier to imagine how the piece was made.
m
Title: Re: Large iridescent gold bowl info please?
Post by: chriss on September 23, 2012, 09:16:50 PM
Thankyou JSMeasell for taking the time to give your very detailed and clear description, very much appreciated :D I've looked closely at this large bowl and to me, it appears to be made from one single block of glass as I can't see any indications of joint marks near the marie, so your option of pressing in a shell mould would fit :)) and thanks to everyone else for your help and advice too, It's taught me a lot :)
Title: Re: Large iridescent gold bowl info please?
Post by: Lustrousstone on September 24, 2012, 06:38:53 AM
The bowl would be made from one piece (gob) of glass. The seams would be in the two-part mould and would cause lines on the glass. You only join handles, feet and decorative bits; you don't makes items in two halves and join them (at least not in pressed glass).