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Glass Identification - Post here for all ID requests => Glass => Topic started by: chriss on November 01, 2012, 04:46:21 PM

Title: Is this Lilac and cream glass Loetz / Micheal Powolny Tango glass please?
Post by: chriss on November 01, 2012, 04:46:21 PM
Hi I have found a very pretty and unusual coloured (to me anyway) glass bowl. I was wondering if anyone knows what it is as i have tried to do research and the closest i can come up with colour and decor wise are

http://www.botterweg.com/Auction/Bid/tabid/59/auctionid/7/lotid/1984/language/en-US/Default.aspx

http://www.trocadero.com/stores/toobiltd/items/172429/item172429.html

The way the detail is applied just reminds me of tango glass.

Mine has manganese or similar content  as it reacts to UV light over the lilac main body and the off white/cream detail gives off a bright glow so I'm presuming this is possibly uranium content custard glass or similar, though I'm wearing L plates with the different types of uranium and other types of glass that react to UV?
The colour is a rich soft lilac, not quite as dark as some of the photos show, but it was the best match :)
Thanks :))


Title: Re: Is this Lilac and cream glass Loetz / Micheal Powolny Tango glass please?
Post by: chopin-liszt on November 01, 2012, 04:58:03 PM
It looks very closely related to some pieces Lustrousstone has.  :)
They're not Loetz. I don't think we know what they are yet. (I'm hoping I'll be corrected!)
I thought though, that "tango" was a word which specifically referred to orange stuff.
Title: Re: Is this Lilac and cream glass Loetz / Micheal Powolny Tango glass please?
Post by: chriss on November 01, 2012, 05:03:21 PM
Hi thanks for the quick reply :))
Tango can come in lots of colours

https://sites.google.com/site/loetzandglass/loetz-4--tango-glass-1
Title: Re: Is this Lilac and cream glass Loetz / Micheal Powolny Tango glass please?
Post by: chopin-liszt on November 01, 2012, 05:23:18 PM
Your trim is Uranium glass.  :)
Title: Re: Is this Lilac and cream glass Loetz / Micheal Powolny Tango glass please?
Post by: chriss on November 01, 2012, 06:43:49 PM
Thankyou  ;D Much appreciated :))
Title: Re: Is this Lilac and cream glass Loetz / Micheal Powolny Tango glass please?
Post by: flying free on November 01, 2012, 06:50:04 PM
http://www.glassmessages.com/index.php/topic,33713.msg255536.html#msg255536
m
Title: Re: Is this Lilac and cream glass Loetz / Micheal Powolny Tango glass please?
Post by: obscurities on November 01, 2012, 07:04:44 PM
These are not Loetz pieces. It is suspected that they may be Kralik, but I do not believe they have ever been nailed down for sure. They seem to appear with varying degrees of execution quality.

As far as your links go, the first link appears to be an example of Ausfuhrung 166. Neither the shape or the decor are related to Powolny. The great Powolny - Tango myth will likely never die.......

Your second link may be a Loetz piece, but could also be by a couple of other companies. In several instances that particular seller, who I am familiar with, applies numerous questionable attributions. As an example their "Extremely Rare Loetz Cypriote Vase" for $1100 is a nice example of Kralik Overshot.

Sue,
The term Tango has been applied to a wide variety of 2 color glass, but a relatively recent display in the Czech Republic of the glass and it's history reveals that the term initially referred to the multicolor combinations of the costumes worn by South American Tango dancers and encompassed much more than 2 color examples....... 

Craig
Title: Re: Is this Lilac and cream glass Loetz / Micheal Powolny Tango glass please?
Post by: chopin-liszt on November 01, 2012, 07:30:08 PM
I was most likely getting mixed up with ceramic glazes from the '30s, and earlier in which orange is often referred to as being tango... but I suspect it might simply have been a slang word.

I'll try to get it right from now on - and put others right too. Myths do need to be dispelled!

Title: Re: Is this Lilac and cream glass Loetz / Micheal Powolny Tango glass please?
Post by: chriss on November 02, 2012, 12:18:49 AM
Hi I've just come across another link similar to the one in the thread previously given by flying free which shows a few other similar pieces to mine I believe :)

 http://www.collectorsweekly.com/stories/44813-czech-glass-new-tango-and-deco-glass

I've just realised that the 1st image side shot of my glass is pretty naff, so I've uploaded 2 clearer photos of it for future reference :))
Title: Re: Is this Lilac and cream glass Loetz / Micheal Powolny Tango glass please?
Post by: chriss on November 02, 2012, 12:32:08 AM
Another update from this author in another similar more recent link is - 

http://www.collectorsweekly.com/stories/63299-kralik-tango-a-permanent-color-riot

To me, these seem like virtually identical prunts and applied detail to the rim and rim shape though i don't know if they are uranium content like mine, I would assume they may well be?
Title: Re: Is this Lilac and cream glass Loetz / Micheal Powolny Tango glass please?
Post by: Lustrousstone on November 02, 2012, 07:15:02 AM
The yellow probably contains uranium but not necessarily. It looks right though
Title: Re: Is this Lilac and cream glass Loetz / Micheal Powolny Tango glass please?
Post by: chriss on November 02, 2012, 08:56:20 AM
Hi Lustrousstone 
Thanks for your advice  ;D
Obscurities has posted that this may be Kralik, then I found more recent updates from the collectors weekly items from the original thread involving yourself in January on this msg board. To me, especially with the last 'Kralik Tango, riot of colour' link I can pick out features from the glass in those posts such as the whole flattened shape and applied detail to the rim of the smaller orange vase on the left in the group of 3 image and the prunts being virtually identical in all clear shots of them when compared to mine?
In some of my Kralik glass, there are differences in execution quality as described by obscurities, as some have manufacturing faults or tool marks within so I've uploaded some pics showing that :) This lilac and off white/cream piece has varying thicknesses in the applied detail to the rim if this turns out to be Kralik ?
   
Title: Re: Is this Lilac and cream glass Loetz / Micheal Powolny Tango glass please?
Post by: Lustrousstone on November 02, 2012, 09:22:49 AM
Your lilac piece is part of the same range as all those pieces with prunts, which is probably Kralik. I've also seen green and cream pieces.

Kralik glass was hand-made (though in a factory); there are bound to be variations and small flaws. These were also not premium ranges, so the standard won't be as high as perhaps some scarcer pieces. Quality control standards weren't so high 100 or so years ago: discards mean waste, which costs money, and the workers were almost certainly on piece work. These are not features of Kralik particularly but of all antique and vintage hand-made or hand finished glass. It is only now that we demand perfection from hand-made items such as those produced by Dartington. (Dartington wine glasses, though hand-made, have their stems pulled by a computer-controlled machine!!)
Title: Re: Is this Lilac and cream glass Loetz / Micheal Powolny Tango glass please?
Post by: chriss on November 02, 2012, 09:40:35 AM
Thankyou :))
Title: Re: Is this Lilac and cream glass Loetz / Micheal Powolny Tango glass please?
Post by: flying free on November 02, 2012, 11:09:39 AM
How do we know they are probably Kralik?
m
Title: Re: Is this Lilac and cream glass Loetz / Micheal Powolny Tango glass please?
Post by: chopin-liszt on November 02, 2012, 11:12:08 AM
The prunts are the same, and they match Lustrousstone's which do have Uranuim trim, I'm not yet convinced of the Kralik identification.
Title: Re: Is this Lilac and cream glass Loetz / Micheal Powolny Tango glass please?
Post by: Lustrousstone on November 02, 2012, 12:20:38 PM
I think this argument is as near as we get (assuming Alfredo's initial assumption hasn't been disproved)
http://www.collectorsweekly.com/stories/27288-kralik-in-butler-brothers-catalogs?in=user

Kralik glass is incredibly versatile
Title: Re: Is this Lilac and cream glass Loetz / Micheal Powolny Tango glass please?
Post by: chopin-liszt on November 02, 2012, 12:23:53 PM
I never felt these bits were quite Kralik quality...
Title: Re: Is this Lilac and cream glass Loetz / Micheal Powolny Tango glass please?
Post by: Lustrousstone on November 02, 2012, 12:33:55 PM
Kralik quality ranges from ropey to excellent; look at my green thing with the blue top next weekend and you will see ropey. These are nicely made if not excellent
Title: Re: Is this Lilac and cream glass Loetz / Micheal Powolny Tango glass please?
Post by: flying free on November 02, 2012, 12:37:53 PM
oh ok.  It's just that on Dirk's photos from the tango exhibition there was a plaque with an explanation and some makers named with associated alphabetical links next to their names (A, B, C) and in the display cases there are vases with a small cube with an alphabetical letter on them - in the instance we are discussing, these vases appear to be on a shelf with the cube letter A.  On the plaque, which I think is associated with these display case( but I could be wrong, it might only relate tot eh one it is actually set on), the letter A appears to refer to Franz Welz
https://picasaweb.google.com/108140812446658939096/CzechTrip?authkey=Gv1sRgCNz6s9vqyMSeRQ#5643730403057826338

Sue, I have one of these in red with uranium trail and prunts and the quality is very high on mine to be honest.
Christine our posts crossed - I too would say excellent quality - I've also owned one of the ribbed Jester vases and the quality on that was aahemm, ropey yes.

m
Title: Re: Is this Lilac and cream glass Loetz / Micheal Powolny Tango glass please?
Post by: chopin-liszt on November 02, 2012, 12:44:49 PM
I perhaps have a slight personal problem with anything orange - just being orange puts it in a "ropey" category for me to start off with.  :-[
Title: Re: Is this Lilac and cream glass Loetz / Micheal Powolny Tango glass please?
Post by: obscurities on November 02, 2012, 03:47:37 PM
The initial attribution by Alfredo is based on some Butler Brothers issues. As I said, these pieces appear in varying degrees of execution quality which does not surprise me. What is a little confusing in regards to these being Kralik as Alfredo asserts is that they appear both with and without pontil scars.  Applied prunts and rims without a pontil mark is not something I generally associate with Kralik production.  I would also say that a couple of the colors I have seen these in, like the lilac color on this example without a pontil mark are not colors I really associate with Kralik. Not to say they did not use iot, but I have a hard time thinking of another piece by them in this color.....  I have not directly examined the ad in which the form appears that Alfredo references in his CW posting. Butler brothers ads can provide good leads for attributions, and my experience is that they groupings in each individual offering have generally "appeared" to be from the same company. Alfredo's posting shows line art of a piece with this style rim and what I would refer to as "wings" on the piece which he also shows examples of. For the reasons stated above, I am not completely convinced that these are Kralik, or at least that all of them are...

Hope this makes sense....
Craig