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Glass Discussion & Research. NO IDENTIFICATION REQUESTS here please. => British & Irish Glass => Topic started by: Paul S. on February 10, 2013, 01:01:39 PM
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Always a rather obvious pattern and one that can be seen from some distance off - the most obvious shape that comes to mind is the multiple sized vase (factory pattern No. 741), which includes a flower support.
In the Stewart's book there is what is described as a '12 ozs. lager' (with 'Ripple' pattern) and which appears to certainly have been available in the 1940 catalogue, and which has much similarity with this piece although the rim is not flared on the lager.
This piece is a tad over 6.75" in height, although I don't know what size the lager was, but possibly similarish. From memory I think I've also seen the flower vase in ruby, although I've no idea what colours the lager was produced in.
Do I assume this is just a different shape of flower vase, or might it have been intended as a parfait or sundae glass of some kind, and do we think age is around the 1940's? thanks for looking :)
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Hi Paul, I'm currently researching a large ruby bowl of Davidsons I have and came across this on Chris & Val's website - have you seen it? looks like your ruby ripple. They say ruby was introduced post war - early to mid fifties, does that help?
scroll down a few paras
http://www.cloudglass.com/davidsonpostwar.htm
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thanks Mel - must be losing it if I didn't see that page, because I certainly did look on the Davidson site. :'(
The shape of this item made me imagine it might have been older, but you're right about the use of ruby on post war domestic items - as opposed to its pre - war industrial use - must admit I'm not very bright when it comes to Davidson.
I've a couple of Davidson bowls also in ruby, plus a round 'ripple' vase (minus its stem support) - however, don't think they have quite the same translucent goldish/red look as Sowerby's 'rubine', although it might just be that the pressed pattern in the Sowerby bowls makes them disperse the light and sparkle better. Not sure if Sowerby also used selenium or something else, alhtough date wise they are a lot earlier than Davidson in production.
The bowl you speak of..........is it like the one in the pix I'm attaching...........amazing the extent that the left hand bowl is wonky, and the degree of red seems to vary.
Both of these carry the impressed 'W' or 'M' (on the underside) - and I seem to remember some short time after I joined the GMB there was endless talk of which letter it was supposed to be - don't know if the matter was ever resolved.
I do have a pressed stemmed eye bath in clear, on the base of which (in relief) there are the words 'MADE IN ENGLAND' - in the centre of which is a rectangular cartouche containing an upper case 'W' - at least it appears as that if you orient the other three words so that they can be read.
Whether this 'W' has any relationaship to the M or W on Davidson I've no idea, but wondered, often. :)
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Hi Paul
yes that's the one.
Has the W in the centre of the base
(I've decided its a W rather than an M as the arms are angled outwards rather than straight up as an M would be, but happy to be corrected on that) I 'll see if I can locate that old thread, it would be interesting to follow up and find out. Don't suppose there is any mention of this in the book is there?
I would agree its a different 'red' to the Sowerby Rubine although I have only ever handled a few examples of each and yes the Sowerby was press 'cut' so that may have given a better optic illusion
This one isnt wonky per se but it does appear to have been pressed in an old, worn mould - the pie crust ribbing, for want of a better description, along the top edge is not crisp and well defined rather just a poor impression and quite easily missed if you weren't expecting to see it there.
The quality of the glass is also quite poor, there are long drawn airbubbles, bits of black stuff within and straw marks as well. The foot is almost orange
Yet it glows orange under UV so Selenium is present - not a cheap piece in its day then so go figure! lol
cheers
Mel
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I don't think the base letter is mentioned in the book - which assume you don't have - and I'd agree that the 'pie crust' edging can vary in definition, certainly does on my two - quite rubbishy on the wonky bowl.
I used the torch on the top side of one of my bowls and paniced because I didn't get the typical selenium response - then I turned the bowls over and they glowed like hell - I wonder if selenium is heavy and sinks to the bottom of these pieces thus giving the glow on the underside only??
Have attached some pix of three Sowerby rubine pieces - obviously the yellowy/gold effect is simply where the glass is thinner, but it makes for a more attractive overall colourway, and there is a selenium glow, but only where the glass is thickest. Pity the dolphin footed bowl is cracked - but it was only £1.99 in a charity shop (and does have the trademark).
I get your point regarding the font style re the M or W - but don't recall that sort of reasoning getting us anywhere in the original discussions :)
Don't let Christine hear you say 'straw marks' - she'll remind us about urban myths again ;D
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ooh, lovely thanks for posting those Paul. love the dolphin bowl in particular. makes the davidson ones seem 'flat'
nope not got the book - its one of several on my hit list lol
maybe the ruby glass was quite unstable hence the colour variation and bottom heavy selenium. I'll have to add that to my list of things to research lol
oh no, don't tel Christine! - I've always known them as straw marks what are we supposed to call them these days?
Mel
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a previous quote from Christine................."Straw marks are an urban myth. Any marks are likely to be where the gob of glass was cut with shears, mould flaws or those arising from stresses during annealing".
I suspect that mould imperfections/flaws are the main source of these marks.
the book has been unavailable for some time I believe, so a secondhand one - if you can find it - is the only option. I did ask Chris Stewart last year if he was progressing with the CD pack, but got the impression that the project has been put on the back burner, and we may well not see it now, unfortunately.
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thanks for the update Paul, it saved me some trawling :)
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quote .........."I'm currently researching a large ruby bowl of Davidsons I have".........which, as you say Mel, is the same as the two shown above, and is, I believe, Davidson catalogue/patten No. 21 with a diameter of 9" and cetainly appears in a very early 1930's Davidson catalogue, although in cloud colours and not ruby. Like many of the bowl designs, this was originally a three part item i.e. bowl, frog and stand. Hope I have all that correct.
Assume you already knew this Mel, or was there other information you needed?
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no thats ok Paul, thanks - I was researching when it was made in ruby and what the W signified :)
I have since found a better word for the piecrust ribbed rim - apparently it's 'knurled' lol
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sounds more descriptive :). Seem to recall that when it's convex (rather than concave like this), the the W/Fs people call it cogged - but knurled sounds just right.
Appreciate this is getting a bit sidetracked, and no objection to moving if people wish, but..............
coming back to the proverbial W or M matter - am attaching pix of the stemmed eye bath showing what does appear to be a W. Doesn't tell us anything about a maker, and may not even be related to the base letter on the Davidson pieces, but thought it worthwhile posting the pix in case of interest.
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W on eye baths could be Woods of Barnsley
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thanks Christine.
Must admit I know nothing of this pressed manufacturer, but Hajdamach does say that they made 'perfume and toilet water bottles and bath salts jars'........so it's no great leap from those to an eye bath. Hajdamach also comments that Woods produced designs for Dartington, so would seem they manufactured for themselves as well as other companies.
Seems Woods were manufacturing for something like the first two thirds of the C20 - and were geographically in the 'north' - so might just be a candidate for the Davidson 'W'................although I would have thought that Chris Stewart might have been well aware of this possible connection :-\
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Woods is the maker of the Lillicraps hone
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quite right - must have been the most odd piece they made...........I wonder if it really did keep the blades sharp?
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They certainly do. The OH has one in use in our bathroom