Glass Message Board

Glass Identification - Post here for all ID requests => Glass => Unresolved Glass Queries => Topic started by: Tony H on January 09, 2006, 09:44:10 AM

Title: Marigold Carnival Glass bowl help with ID please - Country of Origin = Japan
Post by: Tony H on January 09, 2006, 09:44:10 AM
Hi Guys
I have just placed a photo of a carnival glass bowl in a new album Carnival Glass.

It is a nice Marigold in colour and is 3 inch by 5 inch in diameter at the widest part the top has been cupped in, not sure if this is called a rose bowl.

I have the feeling I have seen this pattern somewhere and maybe not in carnival but I cannot remember where.

Can anyone help with ID please.

Tony H in NZ

Please forgive me for this it was ment to be a new topic but I must have pressed reply by mistake, I am not sure how to change this ( senior or seniale moment )!!

http://glassgallery.yobunny.org.uk/displayimage.php?pos=-730
Title: Mystery Carnival Rose Bowl ? or Sugar ?
Post by: Glen on January 09, 2006, 10:07:11 AM
Oh. Gosh. That's different. The shape is, indeed, what would be called a rose bowl. But I wonder if it might have had a lid? I don't recall having seen this specific item in Carnival Glass before. It reminds me of some United States Glass patterns...and that leads me on to another thought...

There's an unsual covered sugar that has been found in Australia and also in the Far East. I need to find my facts on it and get back to you later. I'll try and do some digging around later when I get a bit of time (fond hope).

The pattern also reminds me of Beaded Cable (which it isn't) and Chariot (which it isn't). Oh the joys of pattern ID.

Meanwhile, if anyone can ID this, I'd be thrilled and overjoyed.

Glen (hopeful)
Title: Mystery Carnival Rose Bowl ? or Sugar ?
Post by: butchiedog on January 09, 2006, 02:31:12 PM
Tony H,

Have a look here,

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=7380827966 URL shortened by frank

I've never see this pattern done in Carnival before, but U. S. Glass\Tiffin  did make it.

Mike
Title: Mystery Carnival Rose Bowl ? or Sugar ?
Post by: Tony H on January 09, 2006, 06:32:45 PM
Hi Guys
Thank you all for your help, I have looked in Mollie Helen McCain " Pattern Glass " book there are a lot of patterns with the name bulls eye but not this one.

I have had a good look at this piece and on the inside base in raised capital letters are the words MADE IN JAPAN I will try and photo this and post photo in my album.

The plot thickens.!!!!

Tony H in NZ
Title: Mystery Carnival Rose Bowl ? or Sugar ?
Post by: Glen on January 09, 2006, 06:45:20 PM
Yes, Tony. Yes, yes. That's what I was trying to remember in my earlier post above. If my memory serves me right, the other unusual sugar (I have a feeling the pattern was a United States Glass Co "lookalike" that was a kind of Bullseye and Fan pattern) also had Made in Japan on it. And I think another similar one had some numbers moulded. I'm hazy on the details. More soon............

There are also a number of Carnival items out of Malaysia that have been found in Australia and New Zealand.

Carnival Glass always keeps us on the hop!

Glen
Title: Mystery Carnival Rose Bowl ? or Sugar ?
Post by: butchiedog on January 09, 2006, 07:30:16 PM
Wow!

Thanks for the heads-up on the Japanese repro-look-a-like.  I have seen many Chinese repro-look-a-likes in the last couple of years and now the Japanese are doing it too huh? :-(

Mike
Title: Mystery Carnival Rose Bowl ? or Sugar ?
Post by: Glen on January 10, 2006, 03:14:47 PM
I have tracked down the information I was looking for regarding the Far Eastern sugar that your item reminded me of, Tony. Like yours, it has the words "Made in Japan" - but it also has "Design Patent Number 25949" - all this is moulded on the inside of the base.

It was well over ten years ago that this item was reported - might even be fifteen or so. It was found in Australia, and I know of another that turned up in India maybe six years ago.

It's particularly interesting that both these items (your Bullseye bowl and the one I am referring to here which has a Bullseye and Fan design) are both in the style of United States Glass patterns.

While I was trying to track this piece of info down, I came across more things that I have filed away. I feel a web-page article coming on.......  :lol:

Glen
Title: Mystery Carnival Rose Bowl ? or Sugar ?
Post by: Glen on January 10, 2006, 04:49:25 PM
Tony - may I have your permission to use your photo of the bowl in an educational article (web page)?

Glen
Title: Mystery Carnival Rose Bowl ? or Sugar ?
Post by: Tony H on January 10, 2006, 07:18:31 PM
Hi Glen
You may use the photo for you article, I will take some more and place them in my photo album.

This leads to lots of questions.
What firm in Japan made pressed glass?

Could this have been made from an original mould, if so how was it obtained?

Was a new mould made, would the expence have been viable as so few have been reported?

Tony H in NZ
Title: Mystery Carnival Rose Bowl ? or Sugar ?
Post by: Della on January 10, 2006, 07:59:07 PM
This site may be of some interest.
http://www.toyo.sasaki.co.jp/e/company/history.htm
They imported a pressing machine from the USA in 1928.
I came across this site after Svazzo identified an ashtray that I have.
Title: Mystery Carnival Rose Bowl ? or Sugar ?
Post by: Tony H on January 11, 2006, 12:48:55 AM
Hi Deltab
Thank you for an ineresting link, would be nice to find some of there early pressed glass.

Glen
I have put two more photos in my gallary. I have had a good look at the bowl I can see mould seems for a four part mould.

Looking forward to your article.

Tony H in NZ
Title: Mystery Carnival Rose Bowl ? or Sugar ?
Post by: Glen on January 11, 2006, 05:10:36 PM
Tony (shouts Glen, waving madly) may I use your surname in the article? I don't know what it is. Can you email me to tell me, please? You can get my email from my webpage - there's a link bottom right on the Home page.

Glen
Title: Mystery Carnival Rose Bowl ? or Sugar ?
Post by: Glen on January 12, 2006, 12:28:00 PM
Thanks, Tony :D

I've just finished the article. If there are any mistakes in it, email me please (link to my email is easily accessed via my website).

Article is here
http://www.geocities.com/carni_glass_uk_2000/Japan.html
or you can go via my Home Page (link below)

I'll mention it in a new topic in case anyone else is interested.

Glen
Title: Mystery Carnival Rose Bowl ? or Sugar ?
Post by: Tony H on January 12, 2006, 07:11:17 PM
Hi Glen
How do you do this, it can take me forever just to put something together for the GMB.

Wonderful piece Glen, I look forward to an update, I am very interested to find out about the moulds, how why were and what?

Tony H in NZ
Title: Mystery Carnival Rose Bowl ? or Sugar ?
Post by: Glen on January 13, 2006, 09:49:18 AM
Mike - Butchiedog - I just browsed through yesterday's eBay Glass Chat boards and I see you are asking there for info regarding Tony's bowl. I was fascinated to see the clear glass water pitcher that Julie has that's in exactly the same pattern. Most intriguing. There was quite an interesting exchange on the eBay board between you and Julie about it. I see she pointed you to our own Glass Message Board for discussion.

Here's a link to the pitcher that Julie showed on the eBay board.

http://members.ozemail.com.au/~gjcheers/bullseyepitcher.JPG

I'll summarise the dialogue between Julie and Mike for the rest of you - as I am sure Tony will be interested.

Julie says that she wrote to some people who know EAPG very well. She received a reply from one of them that mentioned the US Glass Co's pattern 15092 (Star and Bullseye) as being similar to Julie's water pitcher. Julie also mentions that Crown Crystal made a similar pattern.

The chat on eBay went round in a kind of circle, as Julie pointed Mike toward my article on Japanese Glass that was inspired by Tony's bowl, so things sort of got in a loop for a while there.

I hope that Mike will report back to us if he finds anything out about this fascinating item. I was interested to see, Mike, that you say you are on a "Japanese glass kick" at the moment. You may find my article of interest - Juu-nin to-iro, link here on the GMB - my apologies if you have already read it. I will be most interested to hear about your future findings.

Anyhow, to address a couple of things that cropped up in the ebay exchange.

1. As Julie rightly said, the US Glass pattern 15092 Star & Bullseye, is not the same as Tony's bowl (and Julie's pitcher). It is similar (as are several other US Glass patterns) but it has a star in the centre of the bullseye, which Tony's bowl does not have.

2. I did actually go through all my Crown Crystal catalogs when Tony showed us the bowl. There are some similar-ish patterns, but I could not find one to match.

As I have noted in the article I posted yesterday on Japanese Glass, my own feeling is that these patterns were simply imitated by whatever company in Japan pressed the glass. United States Glass was exported to many countries, indeed they had a specific export catalog. Much went to South America - a place that many US Glass "look-alikes" have turned up. I suggest that the same thing happened with Japan.

Glen
Title: Mystery Carnival Rose Bowl ? or Sugar ?
Post by: JC on January 13, 2006, 10:36:56 AM
HI Glen,
When I made mention to Mike about Crown Crystal, I later remembered that No they didn't do that, I had recollections of looking in my book  and at first thinking that the 2pint  jug from  67 series was very similar, but with 2 rows of bulleyes.When  I compared both I realised how wrong I was.Funny how the memory can play tricks on you. :roll:
Also should add too that I was told the Bulls Eye and fan pattern without the stars in the centre is also called Running Bullseye.With the Star was named Star in Bullseye
I'll enjoy watching this thread to see where it all leads. It was not 100% conclusive that my jug was USA.But I am sure there was no Made in Japan on it.
Also while here, I should add that some time back I posted a message here about an advertising plate moulded on the base with Regd No and Made in Japan.I can't for the love of me remember what it was advertising.But the lettering was done in tiny dotted glass around the rim and I do remember the word "RICHES" well I think I remember that word. I have tried doing a search but can't find my old post, so I am thinking that I would have posted tha,t when the message board was on the old site.I don't have the plate anymore.Can't remember if I sold it on eBay or whether it went to a market.I didn't even keep a copy of a pic, so I could show.  
Julie..
Title: Mystery Carnival Rose Bowl ? or Sugar ?
Post by: Glen on January 13, 2006, 11:13:18 AM
Julie - great to hear from you (http://www.websmileys.com/sm/happy/042.gif)

Thank you so much for the extra info and clarification. It all helps build the bigger picture.

And yes, I am sure I remember you posting that plate with the Made In Japan lettering on. Your description rings a bell with me....the punched (dotted) lettering and so on. I do remember it. Oh for a time machine.....

Thanks again, Julie.

Glen
Title: Mystery Carnival Rose Bowl ? or Sugar ?
Post by: JC on January 15, 2006, 10:19:57 PM
Glen yes Oh for a time machine.I would love to be able to go back 15-20 yeas ago and get all the unidentified glass I sold over the years.Or even to just have good pics.But back then I didn't think it was possible to find out who and when glass was made.Thought it was all a big guessing game.Which really it was down here. Most glass back  then was IDed as Depression era or Victorian 1880.  :roll: But who would have thought back then, I would find the internet and spend so much time, browsing and learning,( well trying to learn anyway :lol: ) So much info and such a tiny brain to put it in.  :lol: But I love it.
BTW I enjoyed your Article too, don't think I mentioned that  before.I enjoy all your articles.Thanks for them all  :D
Julie