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Glass Discussion & Research. NO IDENTIFICATION REQUESTS here please. => British & Irish Glass => Topic started by: chopin-liszt on September 21, 2011, 01:14:36 PM

Title: Edinburgh & Leith paper label image.
Post by: chopin-liszt on September 21, 2011, 01:14:36 PM
I found one of those jam thingys - (confiture?) marked, and with it's paper label still intact on it.
The cutting on the thingy itself is rather boring, just a basic band of diamond shapes around it (although it's quite complex if you study it closely - beautifully done).

Here are images of the mark on the base and, ta-da..... the paper label.  :smg:
Title: Re: Edinburgh & Leith paper label image.
Post by: Frank on September 21, 2011, 02:00:01 PM
Pic of piece would be nice after that glowing description.
Title: Re: Edinburgh & Leith paper label image.
Post by: chopin-liszt on September 21, 2011, 02:10:51 PM
 :thud:
I didn't bother, Frank, 'cos it really, really is dull and boring, uninspired and insipid, completely void of design, even.
But, just 'cos it's you, I'll sort it. :thup:

2 pics of the E&L  :thud:

then, to show somethings far nicer, both with similar, but much smaller and much more complicated diamond hatchy thingummyjiggerybobberies
my Grandma's Harbridge confiture
and a Tudor confiture

I kind of reckon confiture thingies are underrated.
Title: Re: Edinburgh & Leith paper label image.
Post by: Frank on September 22, 2011, 01:23:39 AM
Well, I guess you you just have to face British (lack of) design at its best  :clap:
Title: Re: Edinburgh & Leith paper label image.
Post by: chopin-liszt on September 22, 2011, 08:55:28 AM
The centre flat sections inside the hatching are square in the middle row, but have to be shaped like kites on the outer rows to accomodate the slight curve of the bowl - but as the bowl actually looks sort of straight, this fine-ish detail gets lost - because the thingies are so big.

On the Harbridge piece, every row is different - and kite shaped, but because the bowl is beautifully flared, you can at least see the hatching is graduated.

And the Tudor is 8-sided and has lovely lenses as well as complex hatching.
Title: Re: Edinburgh & Leith paper label image.
Post by: chopin-liszt on September 22, 2011, 11:53:28 AM
Here's a vastly superior Edinburgh confiture. Just marked with the tiny italic "Edinburgh" script.
I use it (to prop up the scoop of cat food that I have to measure out for Pippin's diet every day) so it had got a bit mucky - what a bu**er to clean! Ended up having to use an old electric toothbrush.
Title: Re: Edinburgh & Leith paper label image.
Post by: Anne on September 22, 2011, 01:21:25 PM
Ahhh that's what they are... I have a set of 6 of this shaped glasses and had no clue what they were intended for! I'll look and see if they are marked and try and get pics.

Edited to add: Pics of mine are already in GlassGallery - I'd forgotten I'd put them there.
http://glassgallery.yobunny.org.uk/displayimage.php?pos=-11370
Title: Re: Edinburgh & Leith paper label image.
Post by: chopin-liszt on September 22, 2011, 01:59:14 PM
I don't know what you'd need a set of 6 for - a vast selection of jams and marmalades and curds - and very greedy guests?

You see a lot of these in charity shops, they seem to be one of those things that didn't get used much and have survived.
As they're made as stand-alone things, you don't need sets or pairs, and they're not as big as cake plates, they are a good sort of thing to collect.

They don't take up too much space and they show off the cutting very nicely, if you're into that sort of thing (wine glasses just look silly on display - they should be used).

In Amsterdam, in the B&B we used to go to these were used to hold "sugar sprinkles" and brown vermicelli (it's not chocolate) on the buffet table which some folk seemed to put on their cereal.  :-X
Title: Re: Edinburgh & Leith paper label image.
Post by: Paul S. on September 23, 2011, 07:43:46 PM
this word 'confiture' must be something relatively recently misappropriated by the glass retail trade  -  possibly because French words sell better.        Newman's glass dictionary doesn't have an entry, and although I've been collecting table glass for a year or two, hadn't seen this in my books.     Are we talking about what would have been called a comfit glass  i.e. a sweetmeat dish - or a comport (compotier).       I see in fact that Webster's equates the word to 'comfit' (preserved or candied fruit - not a glass dessert dish)  -  and the OED also uses the word to describe the contents rather than the container.         I think we should stick with 'comfit or sweetmeat dish  -  this is how our books describe this items, usually.  :P ;D :24: :wsh:
Title: Re: Edinburgh & Leith paper label image.
Post by: chopin-liszt on September 24, 2011, 11:36:09 AM
It isn't a compote,  >:D
(I won't use the comport version of the word, I have a completely irrational but strong personal distaste for the word. So there.  :P) and it isn't a tazza.  >:D
I don't know what a comfit is, but sweetmeats are small individual thingies which would be served from a flatter surface.

It's a footed thingy for serving jam on the table.  :thup:
So it's a footed jam dish if it's not a confiture. I really don't care whether it's in english or french. ;D
Confiture is simpler to type - fewer letters and it's not such a clumsy expression.  :thup:

(no offence intended to anybody, I'm being a bit tongue-in-cheek)
Title: Re: Edinburgh & Leith paper label image.
Post by: Paul S. on September 24, 2011, 07:59:12 PM
well, we can't accuse you of not making use of the emoticons, can we :)        I was also being tongue in cheek, as you doubtless knew  -  but it's just that I find the 'n' awkward phonetically, and find myself wanting to pronounce the word as  'comfiture'  -  I guess because it just sounds so close to comfit.    But quite honestly I really had not heard of 'confiture' before yesterday  -  it's this sheltered life I lead. ;)     I see, incidentally, that the GMB spell check doesn't recognize the word either  -  so I'm in good company.                Notice that you didn't give any dates for your pieces  -  although assume all first half C20  -  is this because you don't know??
P.S.   It's nothing like a tazza  -  which was something that the Borgias were in the habit of drinking from >:D 
Title: Re: Edinburgh & Leith paper label image.
Post by: chopin-liszt on September 25, 2011, 09:34:08 AM
Sorry about the excessive use of emoticons Paul - I'm trying to ensure I'm not misinterpreted.  :ooh:

I've not investigated dates - I couldn't find dates for different marks on E&L on Frank's site or in Ivo's book and I gave up without much of a fight.
I'm not into cut stuff, honest.
I like a bit of Tudor because my Grandpa's wineglasses are Tudor, I have them, they're beautiful (they're the white wine glasses in this house - only nobody drinks white) and they have sentimental value - as does my Grandma's Harbridge confiture.

I think "confiture" simply means a concoction - normally of fruit and is the French word used for "jam".

So I'm just calling these things "jams" in the French language to indicate a gastronomic connection.  :ha:

eeeeeek - checking back, I see I've contradicted myself! Can't have that. :pb:

If I call them "jams", that is easier and shorter to say and type than confiture.

(I suspect I don't like comport, because I used not to be able tell whether it's really got an r in it or not from hearing it spoken. Some english regional accents put rs in where they don't belong and remove them when they do. Then folk write cryptic crosswords with sound-alike clues - and the extraneous or missing rs in things make these clues useless for folk who know where their rs are and should be.  :smg: )
Title: Re: Edinburgh & Leith paper label image.
Post by: Frank on September 25, 2011, 11:51:32 AM
I've not investigated dates - I couldn't find dates for different marks on E&L on Frank's site or in Ivo's book and I gave up without much of a fight.

You will these are shown at the highest level (link) (http://www.scotlandsglass.co.uk/cms/index.php?option=com_virtuemart&page=shop.browse&category_id=182&Itemid=6) on Edinburgh & Leith on Scotlands Glass, I used photos of the mark to categorise as even though there is some info on dates the different marks were used - such dates often get disproven at some point but the marks themselves make a good way to categorise the pieces.

At some point we need a good article on E&L but I don't know enough to write it... guess I should try and get permission to put the Dema book on site, which is best to date.
Title: Re: Edinburgh & Leith paper label image.
Post by: johnphilip on September 25, 2011, 04:21:05 PM
I used to meet lots of French people at London Airport from all over France they all called the little pots of jam and marmalade confiture .
Title: Re: Edinburgh & Leith paper label image.
Post by: chopin-liszt on September 25, 2011, 04:22:18 PM
Thanks, Frank - I can't have been looking in the correct place.  :pb:
So my labelled, ultra-boring one is '27-'39.
Not a good time for anybody in the uk really.
The other one doesn't have the "MADE IN" "SCOTLAND" bits around the tiny italic script, it really doesn't - but the scripty bit is very, very faint and hard to see. My photo is of it well-crammed with talcum powder to bring it out.

I have just gone to my cupboard to retrive a large vase - it's got the "MADE IN Edinburgh "SCOTLAND" mark - but the italic script is different to my labelled jam/confiture. The letters are bigger, rounder and not as sloped. It's not like the mark on your site, I don't think. I suppose I'd better get the talc and camera out again!
Title: Re: Edinburgh & Leith paper label image.
Post by: Frank on September 25, 2011, 05:25:48 PM
I used to meet lots of French people at London Airport from all over France they all called the little pots of jam and marmalade confiture .

Can't call the French stuff jam, too runny  :-[
Title: Re: Edinburgh & Leith paper label image.
Post by: chopin-liszt on September 26, 2011, 11:16:51 AM
Images.

Edinburgh vase (whole thing)
Edinburgh (with "made in scotland") vase mark.)

Edinburgh (alone, on the more attractive confiture) mark and the "Made in Edinburgh Scotland" mark on the vase photographed together, at the same distance from the camera, to show the difference between the Edinburgh scripts and the difference in size.

I'm now completely confused as to whether marks are from Edinburgh or E&L :spls:
Title: Re: Edinburgh & Leith paper label image.
Post by: Frank on September 26, 2011, 12:11:29 PM
Same company just a name change, I would stick with using E&L as that was in use longer. I cannot give the same company two names on SG so E & L it stays.
Title: Re: Edinburgh & Leith paper label image.
Post by: chopin-liszt on September 26, 2011, 12:30:31 PM
Ok, Frank!
But are these different marks of any use?
Does anybody have a date for the tiny italic "Edinburgh" on it's own?

An observation I've made about more recent Edinburgh crystal is that sometimes the mark is on the bottom of the base of a wineglass (as in my Iona) but sometimes it's actually on the top of the base!
I haven't got an example - but some years ago we gave a set of wineglasses to friends as a wedding present - I was, at the time, seriously disappointed by the positioning of the mark - I felt it spoiled the look of the glass a great deal - but there wasn't much we could do about it.

(ps thanks for the info. about the tooth enamel elsewhere - although as you said, it's useless, it's still good to get the info. correct :thup: )
Title: Re: Edinburgh & Leith paper label image.
Post by: Frank on September 26, 2011, 10:06:51 PM
Might be worth trying to contact the ex EC guy just starting to post on SG. I would... but when  :spls:

(Teeth - hardly any left now, definitely mine grew to slow..  possible :D impossible  ;D
Title: Re: Edinburgh & Leith paper label image.
Post by: Alsretro on September 27, 2011, 05:35:43 PM
I used to have a copy of this book (pretty sure I don't any more) http://www.abebooks.co.uk/servlet/SearchResults?bt.x=0&bt.y=0&sts=t&tn=edinburgh+crystal The inside flap of the dust jacket gave illustrations of their various marks and a guide to when they were used. And whoops - just spotted Frank refers to this book further up on this discussion topic  :-[
Title: Re: Edinburgh & Leith paper label image.
Post by: chopin-liszt on September 27, 2011, 05:41:37 PM
 :hiclp:
Hi stranger - thought you were going to pay my collection/me a visit!  ;D
Title: Re: Edinburgh & Leith paper label image.
Post by: Alsretro on September 27, 2011, 05:44:39 PM
Erm - that was around a year ago and about to flee the country again - one day :-)
Title: Re: Edinburgh & Leith paper label image.
Post by: chopin-liszt on September 27, 2011, 05:49:00 PM
Really? How time flies.
I'm still here, rarely go anywhere.... will most likely still be here whern you get back. Anytime you like, Alistair. :thup:
Title: Re: Edinburgh & Leith paper label image.
Post by: Alsretro on September 27, 2011, 05:57:33 PM
And have emailed you Sue before we get chucked off here and in to the Cafe
Title: Re: Edinburgh & Leith paper label image.
Post by: Lustrousstone on September 27, 2011, 06:13:07 PM
Having looked at the jacket, I think if there is no E&L then it's post 1955, when the name was changed to Edinburgh Crystal.
Title: Re: Edinburgh & Leith paper label image.
Post by: chopin-liszt on September 27, 2011, 06:45:13 PM
 :kissy:

Thank-you!
Title: Re: Edinburgh & Leith paper label image.
Post by: Frank on September 27, 2011, 09:41:03 PM
If dating source is Woodward then it is cast iron correct his research was good.
Title: Re: Edinburgh & Leith paper label image.
Post by: Lustrousstone on September 28, 2011, 06:28:20 AM
It was