Glass Message Board
Glass Identification - Post here for all ID requests => Glass Paperweights => Topic started by: henryhallsdanceband on October 22, 2005, 04:59:12 PM
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My mother (from Dunkeld) has a Braso Basket and a signed Monart paperweight. They were given to my grandfather by the Ysarts as they used to fish on the loch beside my mums house back in the 30s. Are they worth anything?
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It's this one - I think
http://www.ysartglass.com/Ysart/DominicP.htm
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There's a picture of Jesus Braso beside a picture of the basket my mum's got. She knows they are worth something but has no idea how much.
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Value on Brasso basket's is fairly arbitrary, I paid 25 pounds for one on eBay but it got smashed in the post. There is no real collector interest in them but some Ysart collectors will buy them cheap out of curiosity.
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How is the paperweight signed? That might have a special value.
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How is the paperweight signed? That might have a special value.
Monart on one of the canes (at the bottom where it joins all the flowers across the base)
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If it says Monart on one of the canes then this is unusual and needs more investigation.
Can you post it or send a picture to me (email button foot of message) and I will post it.
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Thanks Frank
Getting a pic may be a bit tricky and take some time. But as soon as I get one I'll post it.
cheers
Henryhallsdanceband
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Hi to Henryshallsdanceband and Frank,
if there is a problem getting pictures maybe i can assist i stay no too far away from Henryhalldanceband so if he cant get picture then maybe we could arrange a meet and i can get one taken to send on ????
Gary
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All I can say is that I have been eagerly awaiting more info on the paperweight "marked Monart on one of the canes". I've never seen anything like that before!
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Kevin and Frank - Good News. I've found the poster and he has been reminded to provide a picture. Please see this thread on another chat board for the full story of how I found him.
http://apoliticalparty.org.uk/GavinCorder/viewtopic.php?p=9930#9930
Do we have a good close-up photographer in the Dunkeld area?
I always found it puzzling that the first post was by "henryhallsdanceband" and the others were "anonymous" and the "anonymous" said he was the poster. I finally thought that maybe the "henryhallsdanceband" was his user ID from another spot that he had used without thinking about it. So I did a google search and found the user ID on the other chat board. And the rest of the story is in the thread cited above.
I really want that picture for the signature cane book - if it truly exists.
Andy
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Working on it Andy.
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Henryhallsdanceband appears to live in Surrey and had this to say on the other board:
"Hi addg - unfortunately I'm 500 miles from the paperweight and my mother doesn't have a digital camera - however I shall see if she can get someone to take a picture and mail it to me. It may take me a wee while to get this sorted out so don't hold your breath in anticipation."
If we can get a reliable person in the area to take the photos we may be better off from both a timing, number of pictures, and quality of pictures standpoint.
Andy
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Here's what he had to say on the other board:
"Things are a-movin' on the paperweight front. My mother is going to speak with her neighbour - he's very nice, in his 30s, and a lawyer she'd have you all know, to see if he can capture the now legendary signature on one of the canes (see what you can learn here) and Email it to me.
Clever thinks paperweights BTW. Never understood how they were made. Used to gaze for - oh minutes - at the thing wondering..."
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to henryhallsdanceband:
Watch what you say about lawyers - some of us here are lawyers too. They're good people, especially if they'll take the photographs for us.
If we could put in our wish list of photos:
-a detailed close-up of the cane
-a straight down shot of the entire paperweight top
-an oblique view of the entire bottom of the paperweight
Frank, Anne or Kevin can you think of anything else?
Andy
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Those three basics views will do fine for starters. If the "Monart" cane cannot be photographed on its own too easily, then a general shot of it and the surrounding canes (keeping everythging in focus, of course) will be ok.
Alternatively, and rather than send the weight to the US ... just send it down to me in England and I will happily look at it and take all the photos we could ever need. Or ... if the general photos show it to be definitely "Monart" in a cane, I could be easily tempted to travel to Glasgow to get very detailed pics.
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Hurrah
Thanks Frank
Now on Board (sorry)
I did quiz my mum a bit about the signature and she's pretty sure that it is - she knew them pretty well - (Mondart and Vasart I think). If you're interested maybe I can get her to write a bit about them and I'll post it here.
HHDB
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henryhallsdanceband
If the paperweight has the "Monart" signature cane it will be very important from an historical standpoint, and recording your mum's oral history about it will be very important to do. She may also have letters or pictures of the Ysart family fishing and the like that she would be willing to share?
Andy
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Hello there Frank, addg et al
We shall see.
I'm not much of a 'glass chap' but, quite seperately from the Monart connection, I have relatives that worked in both the glass factory in Crieff (Strathearn Glass?) and Caithness Glass - so strangely without trying at all I seem to have quite a lot of 'Scottish Glass' connections.
My only previous glass encounter was when I lived in Bristol. My dad (a cabintmaker) made a new (inside front) door for our Victorian terrace house and we bought some Bristol glass from a glass maker on Redland Hill. Absolutely beautiful blue (of course) red, yellow and green glass.
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HHDB..
How's your Mum doing with the next door neighbor lawyer with the digital camera?
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Hi addg
She's on the case - young lawyer neighbour couldn't help - but his girlfriend can. So passed on photographic instructions and just now waiting to see.
HHDB
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Thanks great HHDB. Can't wait to see the pic's.
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Cripes! I hope the pictures will not be too much of a disappointment. For me this is a lump of glass that I've kicked around as a kid and not bothered that much about. I've not looked into paperweights - it might be guff. :-\
However I shall post piccies as soon as I get 'em.
ps Scotland did OK in the footie tonight
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"snip" And the rest of the story is in the thread cited above. "snip"
If you have not read the thread Andy mentions please do....maybe I have a warped sense of humour but I thought it quite funny....and with that this post gets BUMPED to the top again ;D
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HHDB
Any word from the girlfriend on the pictures?
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Hi,
Returning to the Brasso basket. My wife has three in her glass collection, of differing colours.
Over the last ten years I have seen several at antique centres in Scotland, prices generally £60 to £90. They do seem to sell quite quickly.
yours aye,
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Still on the case - sorry that this is a bit of a 'wait'. Next doors girlfriend isn't able to del;iver (typical wimmin') so I'm chasing my younger bro' to take some picks. I shall not fail. You shall see pics of said p'weight. I shall also quiz my mum on some of her cousins - as some worked in the glassworks at Crieff and Perth (Strathearn?) and others at Caithness Glass.
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Gentlemen (and Ladies?) of this Board I have news. My brother has taken pictures of the paperweight of interest. Unfortunately they are too big to Email so he's sticking them on a CD and sending them to me. I will report back here with further news when I have the CD then we can decide what to do with the pictures.
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HHDB,
Thats great news! If you have a look under the board's index there is a "sticky" about how to post pics, it refers to a programme called IrfanView that you can use to shrink the pictures to be able to post them here. IMHO it is also a very handy programme to have in any case!
Kind regards,
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Or you can email to me, and I can get them up.
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Good job HHDB. That's fantastic. Can't wait.
Frank: if you get the full size pictures let me know.
A.
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Yawn. Sigh. bump :(
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While you are waiting Andy, does FBS mean anything to you? 1930's. Yup an even longer wait ;)
http://www.glassmessages.com/index.php/topic,183
http://www.glassmessages.com/index.php/topic,14008
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Frank,
Does the FBS mark have to be an importer? Is it possible that this may be a US government mark and the F is for Federal ??? ???
Just a wild guess with no backing to it but I thought that in the 20s/30s depression there may have been government controls on imports of luxury goods which may have required such a mark ??? ???
I'm sure this mystery will be solved sooner rather than later.
Keith
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In the latest thread we just now have it confirmed as a Trade Mark. So clearly a company.
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I'm going to guess that in this context it doesn't mean "Fetal Bovine Serum"? ::)
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sorry guys and gals - my brother (with the pics) works offshore (on the rigs) so hasn't had our little signature at the front of his 'to do' list. I do want to get the piccies I hope he's got to you and will chase him on this - on this - Sorry!
patience is a virtue (she's also very pretty!)
Henry
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HHDB, doesn't that brother have mail delivery on the drilling platform?
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Henry, what's your brother's name and which rig is he on?
My son might be able to inspire him to come up with a photograph.
Angela
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My book just went to print so I guess I won't have the benefit of the pictures for my publication, despite all my valiant efforts in tracking down HHDB. :'(
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What a shame :(
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Such a shame, but you can't be expected to wait for ever addg. Do let us know when the book comes out please. We have a book stickie somewhere on the board, and a book review thread as well.
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addg,
Didnt you mention somwhere that the book will be on cd too?
Kind regards,
KarelM
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Hi all
Spoke with my brother last night and he IS going to put the pictures on a CD and send them to me before he next goes offshore (tomorrow night!!). Hang fire - we might be getting somewhere!!
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dear addg
oh blast and drat it all - if I'd realised that you were doing a book I'd have got the pictures sorted ages ago. Sorry - kind of shows how much I don't know about how seriously some (all?) of you guys take this sort ofr stuff - but it is art - so I should have know better - after all I live in an Arts and Crafts house in Surrey England and love all things A&C but especially (as a Glaswegian) CRM (I studies Architecture at Glasgow School of Art)
HHDB
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Now I'm new to this forum and thread but read back though it the other day....hold the press!!!! this could be fantastic.
HHDB from what I've read your CD and photos will mean a lot I'm certain.
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"snip"oh blast and drat it all - "snip" kind of shows how much I don't know about how seriously some (all?) of you guys take this sort ofr stuff - but it is art - so I should have know better"snip"
HHDB, you should read the Flashman books...NOOOOO not the DVD's!!!!! read the books...you'll enjoy them :angel:
Kind regards,
PS and just a cross reference how seriously some (maybe all) take this: http://www.glassmessages.com/index.php/topic,16614.0.html
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Update - might get pictures on Monday next (ish) from HH's :band:
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Well I've got the pictures. Just need to download them from the camera and I'll post them. I have to admit my mum's idea of a signature looks a little bit like scratches to me - but who knows!
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We expect to be disappointed, but sometimes scratches are more than you'd think. :sick:
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For this, I'm almost prepared to sit here and keep refreshing my dial-up connection until the pics are shown - even if takes many, many hours to do so. ;D
But I think I should really be patient and get some much needed sleep instead (had a full 24 hr day's activity from 5am Sat to 5am Sunday and only a few hours sleep, so far, after that).
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I hope to get the pictures posted this evening. Meanwhile if you are interested by Aunt (Mum's sister) has a signed Vasart Bowl that I think is B022 - though it's more a purple in colour.
http://www.ysartglass.com/Vascat/VasB021.htm (http://www.ysartglass.com/Vascat/VasB021.htm)
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OK - lets have a go
(http://img338.imageshack.us/img338/8141/holiday2006162fl8.th.jpg) (http://img338.imageshack.us/my.php?image=holiday2006162fl8.jpg)
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(http://img297.imageshack.us/img297/9480/holiday2006160co9.th.jpg) (http://img297.imageshack.us/my.php?image=holiday2006160co9.jpg)
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(http://img502.imageshack.us/img502/4903/holiday2006161bk2.th.jpg) (http://img502.imageshack.us/my.php?image=holiday2006161bk2.jpg)
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I've got more - but if there is a better way of posting them let me know.
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Nice paperweight, nice pix BUT you didn't post the "signature" they've all been desperately waiting for :cry:
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Henry, if posting that way is working for you, just keep to it! No-one will mind :) You can add three pictures per page by clicking on the (more attachments) link, which is next to the attachments box.
Alternatively, you could try the Glass Gallery page:
http://glassgallery.yobunny.org.uk/
which has instructions here:
http://glassgallery.yobunny.org.uk/glassgallery_help.html
oh, yes, and as Christine says, please, please, please include a photo of the signature :)
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Henry, would it be ok if I uploaded your photo's to our GlassGallery? It's just that imageshack links might not last terribly long and I'd like to retain your links if possible. Do let me know if that's ok.
...looking forward to seeing that Monart cane too!
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My Mum is convinced - and to my eyes it does look possible (and there are no marks of anything similar on any of the other canes) that she can make out M and N and other letters of Monart on the white area at the base of where the cane broadens out. Then again the imagination is a marvellous thing.
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I see what you mean, but that would be down to pure chance as that part was made by inserting a tool into the hot glass. There would be no opportunity to engrave letters.
In theory a small piece of white glass could have been prepared with name Monart but the stretching action would have resulted in greater distortion... not impossible to achieve but if the approach had been developed, where are the other examples.
Do you know roughly when your grandfather got this weight? Pre or Post WW2?
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Just for confirmation, are the "letters" those seen in the second photo, taken in a horizontal view, showing the "stem" below the central air bubble? If so, then I agree with Frank.
This type of "coincidental occurrence" can occur in many situations. Although "M" and "N" shapes do seem to be clear, these and the other "marks" in that area are simply gaps between the white glass.
To add to what Frank has said, this weight has been made with lots of coloured and white glass bits, but probably few, if any, actual "canes". Paul Ysart usually put the coloured and white bits (and often with chips of gold aventurine, too) on a surface, which was formed from powdered white glass. When the tool was inserted to form the bubbles over "legs" / "stems", the powdered white ground gets stretched. If the powdered glass was quite thin in any area, then the stretching will cause gaps to appear, and, in this case, it has given the allusion of "letters".
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Having said that, I will now add that I think it is a very good paperweight and it is also less common than many other types. Here is some background information ...
I have two similar weights, one is a double Harlequin (like Henry's mum's) and the other is a Triple Harlequin (as shown here (http://www.btinternet.com/~kevh.glass/pages/paul-ysart/unsigned/RareHarlequin.htm)). My Tiple version is much like Henry's mum's in that is has no clearly seen whole or part millefiori canes. But my Double example does have partial canes that are matched to others in Paul Ysart's work.
So far, I have seen about 6 (or less??) of these weights, all being of large (magnum) size and with a smooth polished base. I believe these are from the 1930s period, but they could also have been made post-war, prior to Paul joining Caithness.
At Caithness, Paul made some Double Harlequin weights but when asked by Colin Terris whether a Triple was possible, three were made. This information is still available in one of Colin Terris's websites (although Colin is sadly no longer with us). See this link (http://ysartweights.mysite.wanadoo-members.co.uk/) then click on "Patience Rewarded". Unlike my two and Henry's mum's examples, the Caithness version is much more like the Harlequin types that Paul made at his Harland works in the 1970s, having coloured twists amongst the cane sections and coloured chips.
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Could that scarcity just be due to lack of recognition Kevin? Look how rare PY weights were in the 1980's and now there is usually at least one on eBay at any time.
Henryhall I would like to put your images on Scotlands Glass website, I can give you and your mum a credit. You can email me pictures - see envelope to the left for email address.
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Yes, although currently regarded (by me) as uncommon, lack of recognition will be a factor with these - until now, of course.
It is possible that other examples have been sold on as "Bohemian" since many "bubble and frit" weights were made in Europe in the late 19th and early 20th centuries. However, the Bohemian ones were mainly much less precise than Paul Ysart's, and did not (usually) have the coloured bits set on a ground of any form. So Paul's work would stand out as quite different when seen amongst a collection of Bohemian items.