Glass Message Board
Glass Mall => Glass Market Place => Topic started by: Solar1 on January 08, 2013, 04:57:23 PM
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Hi I am new to this forum so not really sure if I am posting this in the right place.
I have an excellnt condition Blue glass Brockwitz Cockatoo centrepiece and bowl which i am thinking of selling, once I have established what it is worth but am really worried about posting it outside the UK and would really prefer the buyer to collect.
It seems to me that the international postage costs are so high with insurance that it may put buyers off, but I need to get it insured otherwise if it gets broken I will not be covered. Can anyone offer any advice please. :)
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Hi
There is a great risk sending overseas.I packed a Brockwitz blue Fortuna bowl with demountable birds and it was packed very well indeed and it still got to Australia in pieces.
As a seller even though you pack well and tell the buyer this and the parcel gets there broken (out of all places around the world I have posted the worst is Australia...even a well established Deco glass dealer from the fairs I know refuses to send there now)
the buyer will insist a full refund.
I have been out of pocket many many times.Glass is only insured for loss and Royal mail will only give you £46 back if lost in transit.
There is no courier that will insure against breakage of glass.
If I were you I am sure there are buyers closer to home that would give you a great price for the piece and you would have better piece of mind knowing it would get there safely......sometimes piece of mind,hassle free transaction is better than a little more money.
Some people will probably think I am being biased.....but I am speaking from experience and am only offering good advice.
Cheers Nige
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Hi
I have also sold to Australia several hundred times over the last 10 years including many large heavy pieces by couriers and have never had any breakages or lost parcels. I agree there are no couriers who will insure glass and there is always an element of risk when selling overseas .
Roy
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... I totally agree with Roy and oyemincanto. One thing that I would DEFFINATELY ask for, is confirmation from ANY purchaser overseas that they purcahse at their own risk and that YOU are not responsible once the item has left your custody and is in the hands of a courier. One other thing which I personally do is to take photos of each and every stage of packaging, particularly with moulded glass.. There are many liars out there, who will already have a damaged piece and will then try to say that what YOU sent to them is in fact what they already have... eplay/playfoul will not be on your side as a seller, and the purchaser shall win on all counts. I have dispatched the most fragile of items overseas without any breakages, and as Roy perhpas, many many times, but then again it has got to be packaged VERY well. Only this week I have purchaserd two Lalique mascots for example, here in England... I would rather drive the 300 miles there and back to collect them personally which I shall do, rather than to trust any other on this planet to courier the pieces for me. At the end of the day, if you do not feel comfortable to sell overseas, then dont, would be my best advice to anybody. You may very well regret doing so and have many sleepless nights. Sell the piece to me instead.... I will give you a very fair price... and subject to where you are, will also collect. John
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Hi again
There is also the option of sending signed for so that the buyer at the other end has to sign for the parcel in person.
John is correct in saying there are many liars out there.....if sent normal airmail it isn't tracked and so there is nothing stopping the buyer saying it didn't arrive when in fact it did as there is no proof of delivery with that service,so then the buyer says it hasn't arrived and you give a refund.
Unfortunately the online auction sites can be a playground for bad activity as I have experienced.
I am sure John would give you a very good price-sell to him lol
Nige
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... without influence, there are indeed MANY sellers who insist upon insurance, even though they know that glass cannot be insured, and that is for their own financial gain. A few extra £'s.
Proof of postage from the courier, MY PROOF that I mailed the piece
and a signed for delivery is good enough for me...
Though item tracking can give peace of mind to the purchaser.
... anything else is a waste of money for both seller & purchase alike, when it comes to glass.
Some purchasers know this too, as so do "I" as a collector...
This week alone I have mailed twenty items to Brazil and as many again to Indonesia...
NONE with insurance...
NONE with item tracking...
but ALL with proof of postage and "MY" photographs which can establish the same. I have saved ME and the PURCHASER much wasted expense.
I only sell privately. I am not to answer to or under the constraints of ePlay or playFoul...
thank heavens.
Thanks oymicanto... I could not agree more.
... and should you wish to consider my offer to purchase this peice,
then please contact me Solar1 by email: lizzy AT gmx DOT co DOT uk
[Mod: email address anti-spammed - always best to just refer to the email icon to the left under the User details.]
NO CRANK EMAILS PLEASE! from anybody else. They bore me and me will be junked.
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Or you could list on Ebay as collection only and let the market decide the price.
There seems to be a lot of passive aggression in the Glass Market Place of late and this thread contains some prime examples.
Special Delivery does cover glass in the UK providing it is packaged well and marked as fragile. So that is another option available to you for UK sales.
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I have to agree with Nemmie's comments regarding this thread.
Having sold close to a thousand items of glass on ebay over the years I have had a couple of items delayed for a few weeks before delivery, one item lost, one item broken and a single dishonest buyer who was English.
The overwhelming vast majority of people are perfectly trustworthy.
John
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Hi
There have been over the years some shocking behaviour on this site a sort of clique mentality.
I go a lot of the fairs when I can as I do have a full time job and the glass dealers/collectors I have the pleasure to speak to have said they find some people on this site have the most appalling manners.I agree.
As a child growing up with disabled parents I was open to the most foul bullying from children and was beaten up on several occasions.
As I have developed into an adult I will not tolerate bullying and I have had many occasions when I have stood up to people face to face and they have come off a lot worse,I can reduce many to tears now lol
Always stand up to the bullies,and sometimes I find this the case on here.
Anyway back to the topic in hand I would definately sell to a UK collector as it would be more secure to send and there are plenty of UK collectors who would give you a terrific price...good luck!
Nige
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One thing that I would DEFFINATELY ask for, is confirmation from ANY purchaser overseas that they purcahse at their own risk and that YOU are not responsible once the item has left your custody and is in the hands of a courier.
This is entirely unenforceable under UK trading legislation - distance selling regulations state, quite rightly, that the responsibility for the item sold remains that of the seller until the buyer receives it and accepts that it is what they want.
Also, on the compensation front, Royal Mail will cover broken glass - if worth under £46, or insured if worth over £46 - under every service except for Standard Parcels. This includes airmail.
Couriers won't cover broken glass, but have much more generous size/weight restrictions, and so it is easy to over-compensate in the amount of packing you use. If your parcel weighs over 2kg, or is oversized for Royal Mail, try websites like http://www.parcel2go.com/ - they're a broker for space with major couriers, and can get big discounts with folk like FedEx, TNT, etc..., often much less than half the price of booking it with them yourself, or using Royal Mail. They also have insurance schemes, which are still good for in case parcels get lost.
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I totally agree Nick.
I use Interparcel for the UK, Parcelsplease for Germany and Holland and transglobal for USA and Australia all being best for those countries.
If I had a choice of sending an item say to the value £200 and I had a choice of sending Royal mail insured signed for or by UPS courier I would more often than not send by UPS which to the USA is about 2-3 working days knowing I could pack better in slightly bigger box over 2kg and the cost would be very similar £30.00 , UPS being fully tracked all the way, while with the Royal Mail 5-10 days and sometimes up to 30 days.
Roy
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Hi All... I would also agree with most points within this link, however unless you have had to raise issues with the two quoted sites that I mentioned, then perhaps you will not realise that they seem to be ABOVE any English laws... THEY ARE the law and it is THEY who treat both sellers & customers how they choose too. It is THEY who make the decisions in favour of either the seller OR the purchaser, should anything go wrong, and trust me, there is nothing that one can do about it... At last count, there were 35,000+ claims against both of these online facilities in England alone since AUGUST of last year. Not one has seen any amount of true Justice. I have had the International Financial Ombudsman, on their backs for these past THREE YEARS and even they cannot get anywhere close to these people, for me or for the benefit of some of my customers.
Secondly, every single Post Office that I have ever asked will tell me that Glass cannot be insured. Not for love or for money. If It CAN, then I would greatly appreciate the full details please. I would like to add if I may, that ALL of my customers are from overseas. I thank you all in advance for any further information regarding the insurance of ANTIQUE GLASS during shipment by: Royal Mail and Parcel Force.
It is very true of course that you can insure your packages and also pay for this before mailing them, however should you ever have to make a claim for "damaged" glass (not "loss" during transit) it will be very unlikely indeed that you will receive any amount of compensation. Please tell me if I am wrong... and the very first thing that the courier will ask for, for any damaged goods, glass or not, is photographic proof as to how the package was wrapped, packed, sent & received.
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Royal mail Special Delivery for UK delivery covers glass antique or otherwise up to £2500 , claims have been made and settled without problems .
cheers ,
Peter.
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Thank you Peter, I shall make further enquiries. I must add though, that I have just this moment returned from a Parcel Force depot to collect, and they told me that THEY do not insure glass, and as you know Royal Mail use Parcel Force for anything above 2k in weight. I really will look into this, very well indeed. Cheers, John.
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Quote "Royal Mail use Parcel Force for anything above 2k in weight. "
they may subcontract to parcel force for delivery but Royal Mail( purchased from the Post Office , not a Parcelforce office) special delivery can be up to 10 kilos and £2500 in value,only when using' International Signed For' delivery from the post office are you restricted to 2 kilos in weight.
cheers ,
Peter.
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... Sorry for the confusion Peter. I did mention that I only mail glass to overseas, but I am truly going to look into this, as it is exceptionally helpful and important for me and my customers to know with absoulte certainty...
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...then perhaps you will not realise that they seem to be ABOVE any English laws... THEY ARE the law and it is THEY who treat both sellers & customers how they choose too.
eBay and Paypal still have to - and do - abide by the trading rules for distance selling, though.
Secondly, every single Post Office that I have ever asked will tell me that Glass cannot be insured. Not for love or for money.
People who work in the post office, on the whole, know nothing about the postal service. Whenever I send glass I'm always told, without fail, that glass cannot be sent, or cannot be insured. I nod and smile, and send it anyway - because I've read Royal Mail's terms and conditions.
Here's the bit that says only standard parcel service is excluded: http://www.royalmail.com/customer-service/personal-customers/refunds-and-compensation/damaged-item-compensation/damaged-items
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Here's the Royal Mail guide for packing glass to qualify for compensation:
http://www.royalmail.com/delivery/mail-advice/wrapping-and-packing
5cm of packing between the item and the box wall, and a rigid box. I did read elsewhere, buried in the smallprint of another page, that it's necessary to mark the parcel as containing fragile glass items.
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Nic is correct. The words FRAGIILE GLASS has to be in RED letters directly above the recipient's address.
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... I am in debt to you all, for you have opened my eyes.
I listen TOO MUCH to Post Office staff and those at Parcel Force, it would seem.
I will study all of the links provided by you all, and I thank you sincerely...
Without causing a war: "eBay and Paypal still have to - and do - abide by the trading rules for distance selling, though."
BUT, they do not.
I have countless amounts of documented FACTUAL PROOF to the contrary.
I cannot be bogged down with going back and forth with this.
I, and many that I know, have been subject to ePlay & plaYfoul's on-going CRIMINAL activities. They are nothing short of modern-day maffia, and I shall never EVER think anything less of them PERIOD. No matter what anybody else has to tell me.
I may just try a little experiment of my own... I will insure and mail some glass to a friend, (wrapped, but not as how I would consider to be professionally, as some folks do not) and do ALL that Roayal Mail states that I should...
It shall arrive to my friend damaged and perhaps then I can truly learn, first hand, about compensation values.
Please, I am not questioning the goodwill of GMB members here...
I take on board ALL opinions & information gratefully, and I thank you all,
but there are still times when one has got to learn for oneself
and maybe, just maybe, this is a time in question... John
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I listen TOO MUCH to Post Office staff and those at Parcel Force, it would seem.
Parcel Force, whilst part of the Royal Mail Group, are a distinct company from Royal Mail and do not insure glass. They were correct when they told you that.
It's only the universal parcels services offered by Royal Mail (bar standard parcels) that cover glass for damage as well as loss.
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Thank You Pinkspoons, EVERY piece of info related to this topic, is helpful to us all.... AND our customers.
I have only ever used Royal Mail.
Folks tell me fedex and TNT and many other couriers are good, but one gets settled with what they've been doing for years.
At the end of the day, it is "US" perhaps who are the best insurance against breakage,
by ensuring that our glass is exceptionally well wrapped and packed in the first place, before we then mail it, anywhere.
I'd rather spend my time and efforts doing that, than having to spend it chasing Insurance claims etc.
and after all, there is no insurance against some courier employees,
who think it fun to play basket ball with any box that has FRAGILE tape on it!
I have lost count of the glass that has to me damaged, solely due to poor wrapping... which is not the fault of the courier.
On the other hand, hand on heart, of the many hundreds of items that I have personally mailed, I can think of only one piece sent to New Zealand, that suffered whilst in transit.
None of us want our glass to arrive broken, not to anybody. Insured or not...
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I am enjoying reading all of this , i have bought a fair bit of glass from overseas over 800 items i would think and most is well packed , i have had 2 breakages this year already and both sellers think they packed well , i did not claim, i have received items from most that are on this forum and all were well packed , i would rather pay $50 more for postage than arrive broken , when i am paying $100/s for item i want it to arrive , i have seen couriers and postal workers throw across patio , bounce parcel up and down in arms while walking , i invite them inside and show what they are delivering and havent had a problem since all that deliver here now know , I mostly buy off ebay as there are also many dodgy sellers thankfully i have been lucky, i have been chaseing a cockatoo for 2 years now buy havent been able to get one ,would like the whole thing , Thanks REX
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Thank you all for your advice. I have contacted a couple of couriers who will insure if they pack the item but this adds further cost to their already extortionate charges. I will look in more detail regarding points made about Royal Mail by Pinkspoons which I was not aware of as I had been told like so many others that Royal Mail do not insure glass.
I think that the only failsafe way to avoid damage may be to advertise it and ask the buyer to collect. This will restrict it to UK buyers unless others come over to the UK at a particular time of year for antique fairs, but at least I would be able to physically hand over the piece and the buyer would be able to see what they are actually buying.
I think if i brought and sold glass or collected pieces I may be more savy on these matters, so please forgive my ignorance, but the truth is I only have this piece (there may be others when I get to the rest of it) which has been wrapped up in the loft for years as it was given to my Mom by my aunt who had had it some time. Mom does not like parrots and such like so it was never displayed, just packed in a box and put in the loft, but now at 87 has decided to empty the loft!
Can I ask some further advice please - I know the value will depend on condition (a damaged amber centrepiece without a bowl sold on eBay yesterday for £250). My item is blue, does the value vary depending on the colour? I will try to add a picture if this helps.
Once again thank you all for your help I really do appreciate it.
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I use Interparcel for the UK, Parcelsplease for Germany and Holland and transglobal for USA and Australia all being best for those countries.
I had a look at Parcelsplease and Transglobal. Parcel2Go works out a little cheaper than Parcelsplease for Europe - at least on the few testers parcels I ran through their system. Transglobal was about 25% cheaper than Parcel2Go for big international shipments, but for some reason their insurance doesn't cover glass, pottery, antiques, art, etc... for loss. Which makes no sense to me.
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Solar 1 ... SOME would say that Uranium green examples command the highest prices, but much also depends upon ones own individual likes. I personally for example prefer amber, but moods can change. The Brockwitz cockatoo, does appear to be a popular piece in any colour variety. There are many collectors of Brockwitz glass and also collectors who purchase any kind of Bird for example or all flower-frog types. This of course adds to the demand and so a bidding frenzy quickly ensues... £250 for a damaged piece, does seem pointless to me, but then again if it is desperately wanted by a collector, then they will be prepared to spend whatever they can afford. I sold a set in amber (Cockatoo & bowl) this time last year for £275. Privately. I do not sell on eBay. The bowl that you have is recognised as being the correct bowl for the piece, however the cockatoo itself is also shown in original Brockwitz catalogues as a solitary piece, and so it may have also been available as a separate item at time of manufacture?
Racyrabbit2000... Yes, I am disgusted with those couriers who think it funny to handle ANY package without due respect. I was speaking with an ex-employee of Parcel Force once, and he told me that many workers will go out of their way to drop/kick etc. ANYTHING with a fragile tape on it, "just for a laugh!" I did write to Parcel Force about this, but I received no reply. I also think that problems can arise by those who do not sell much glass and so they will not have any idea as how to wrap it accorgingly. An ill-fitting box, or just a few sheets scrunched-up newspaper seems to be OK by them... As a matter of course, I ALWAYS ask a seller (no matter who they be) to wrap & pack my purchase very well, as many need reminding. Folks do not mind you asking them again and again, if of course they are responsible. Purchasers ask that of me all of the time too, and I do not mind at all. I will even send a seller an empty box or two, crammed full of bubble wrap etc. if "I" consider that they require it... I am not interested in collecting Glass Jig-Saw Puzzles. I want my purchases to arrive to me completely damage free, and if I can assist with that, then fine, and NEVER will I accept 2nd Class Postage within England! It's either next day delivery or forget it! And PLEASE dont mail to me on a Friday... My purchase, will be stuck in a Post Office depot with any manner of items stacked upon it during weekend closures. Keep it with you until Monday please... It stands a much better chance of arriving to me safely.
I have even gone out of my way, to PURPOSELY DROP a box that I have packed...
After all, it is going to be dropped and thrown into a back of a delievery van by who knows who, and if "I" cannot drop it without its contents breaking, then it sure isn't packed appropriately... We who sell glass, have a responsiblity to do our very very best to wrap & pack, or else we should be ashamed of ourselves.
We are CUSTODIANS of items (not just their owners) many of which are irreplaceable and with that comes a duty.
We all of us carry our packages with care to a Post Office etc...
That same CARE, becomes history, once in the hands of some of the Apes who transport them...
There are times when I just wished that I collected FEATHERS rather than glass! ;D
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Pinkspoons... I can only imagine that the main reasons that most couriers will not insure against Glass, Antiques & Pottery for example, is that they do not have any control over how those items have been wrapped & packed...
I feel certain, that IF they were to make guidelines and instance upon how these items MUST BE PACKED, then perhaps they would insure against any damage.
I have to mail a 12 piece Victorian glass epergne, with fragile twisted canes, baskets and flutes, of exceptionally brittle glass to Canada from England next week...
It has got to arrive to my customer completely damage free.
How would most folks mail it?
How would a courier company know, that I had wrapped & packed it appropriately?
They sure aint gonna insure it, just by me paying an extra £20 or whatever!
Its about time, that THEY gave customers exact advice,
and YES even photographic proof by "US" the mailers
and then perhaps they would be more obliged to insure it.
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I understand not covering damage - it was the fact that Transglobal don't cover loss of parcels containing glass, etc...
The loss of a parcel is a courier failure, regardless of the parcel contents. Most other couriers make this distinction in their cover.
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Solar ! you would have to get at least $500 pounds plus for that cockatoo in that bowl if not dont sell , Thats what it is worth to me , I know Nigel would have a better idea on prices ,i was willing to pay that or more for one recently and it never eventuated ,Still looking , REX and Theresa
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While i remember while i was at a fair at Lincolnshire i bought a couple of large Brockwitz bowls and a couple of smaller items and i got a packing firm at the fair to pack called Robinsons ,they did a very good job , bubble wrap then foam rubber then a box then bubble wrap and more foam rubber inside another box the old double box trick ,i took it to post office where we stayed in Kensington and posted from local post office by Royal mail , it beat us home took only 7 days ,Thanks REX
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... I agree about the price. If you intend to sell it by auction then set a reserve, and just as REX & Theresa suggest, should it not sell then keep it. Its value is not destined to diminish and there are many collectors who would wish this piece. The bowls themselves are often seen, the cockatoo's less so, and as for the sets?
I have not seen one being offered online in blue glass for as long as I can remember.
Blimey! One would think that ANY package would be insured against LOSS subject of course to having the item Recorded or whatever. I totally agree, "LOSS" should be the responsibilty of ANY courier! Damage is one thing, but if a courier cannot carry without losing, then perhaps they should consider a change of career? lol