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Glass Identification - Post here for all ID requests => Glass Paperweights => Topic started by: Morgan48 on November 01, 2011, 05:59:57 PM

Title: Caithness C11G confirmation please
Post by: Morgan48 on November 01, 2011, 05:59:57 PM

Good evening GMB and all

Over the years I've seen a fair number of Caithness weights with the C11G etching on the base. This seems to mainly be on "older" Caithness weights. I have read that this indicates these are seconds.... can someone please confirm this

Many thanks and regards

Gareth


Title: Re: Caithness C11G confirmation please
Post by: chopin-liszt on November 01, 2011, 07:07:47 PM
It does indeed Gareth  :hi: :hi: :hi: - it's lovely to "see" you - I hope you're well and doing great! :kissy:
Title: Re: Caithness C11G confirmation please
Post by: Morgan48 on November 01, 2011, 07:23:08 PM


Many thanks Sue.... good to see you still tinkling the ivories..!!.... :hiclp:  ....... It seems Caithness must have pushed out quite a barrow load of duff ones then.... :o

Hope all is well with you too..... take care :)

Many regards

Gareth
Title: Re: Caithness C11G confirmation please
Post by: chopin-liszt on November 01, 2011, 07:39:49 PM
One could simply decide they got awfully fussy about what constitutes a fault, Gareth.  ;D
I'm often pushed to find any flaws in bits marked as such.
What matters is, is it a lovely piece or something rather more ordinary?  :usd:

Title: Re: Caithness C11G confirmation please
Post by: Frank on November 01, 2011, 11:14:21 PM
Caithness gift shop probably did a very good trade in seconds to visitors that would otherwise not have bought. As such it would make perfectly good business sense to ensure that the supply was able to meet the demand. The workers were very good so wastage was minimal - it would thus be no surprise if weights were marked as seconds purely for commercial reasons.
Title: Re: Caithness C11G confirmation please
Post by: Roger H on November 02, 2011, 11:05:26 AM
     That makes good business sense. I have a Caithness marked as a second but could not really find anything wrong with it until I compared the colour of the ground with a "first". Mine was a fair bit darker, but I actually prefered it.
             Regards Roger.
Title: Re: Caithness C11G confirmation please
Post by: Frank on November 03, 2011, 12:31:19 AM
Colours were varied particularly in long editions, I cannot see colour as a 2nd criteria.
Title: Re: Caithness C11G confirmation please
Post by: Roger H on November 03, 2011, 11:00:18 AM
     Well Frank if you say that is the case, I can't see anything wrong with my C11G. So I suppose we will have to revert to the Caithness selling stategy, thanks for the info.
          Regards Roger.
Title: Re: Caithness C11G confirmation please
Post by: chopin-liszt on November 03, 2011, 11:13:22 AM
I have a couple of seconds - of limited edition pieces.
My Helen MacDonald "Edinburgh Rock" has a few swirls in the casing if you look carefully enough - but it's not been faceted or engraved like the non-seconds.
I've also got 2 large "Free-form" chargers, one has a bit of a bulge falling down from the underside, the other I cannot fault - unless you count one tiny elongated bubble. As these are both completely unmarked, I am assuming they're seconds, given they're limited editions of 250.
Title: Re: Caithness C11G confirmation please
Post by: daveweight on November 03, 2011, 11:40:32 AM
I too have seen a lot of CIIG weights with no apparent faults but I do know for sure that Caithness often did experimental or trial weights and rather than waste these they were sold off as seconds in the shop. Similalrly Whitefriars sold seconds in their factory shop marked with an S scratched on the base and many of these had no faults but I believe they were perfect and used to stock the shop.
Dave
Title: Re: Caithness C11G confirmation please
Post by: stew2u2 on November 03, 2011, 01:05:52 PM
i thought that if they did not match the original design that they were called CII2. nothing wrong with them just fussy designers  ;D
Title: Re: Caithness C11G confirmation please
Post by: daveweight on November 03, 2011, 02:26:37 PM
I have never seen or heard of any weight marked CII2 I thought all seconds were marked CIIG but maybe someone else can comment better on this
Dave
Title: Re: Caithness C11G confirmation please
Post by: Lustrousstone on November 03, 2011, 03:23:55 PM
Some are scratched C2G, otherwise its CIIG.
Title: Re: Caithness C11G confirmation please
Post by: stew2u2 on November 03, 2011, 10:22:33 PM
Some are scratched C2G, otherwise its CIIG.
thats what i meant a bit of a typo there
Title: Re: Caithness C11G confirmation please
Post by: Frank on November 04, 2011, 12:23:59 AM
...Similalrly Whitefriars sold seconds in their factory shop marked with an S scratched on the base and many of these had no faults but I believe they were perfect and used to stock the shop.
Dave

Which would seem to confirm a sensible business practise.
Title: Re: Caithness C11G confirmation please
Post by: RAY on November 04, 2011, 10:49:55 PM
and dont forget , even prototypes " as non standard production " were marked as seconds
Title: Re: Caithness C11G confirmation please
Post by: Frank on November 04, 2011, 11:37:11 PM
It has been drawn to my attention that it was not an uncommon glassworks practise to produce more than required for a limited edition. This allowing for seconds and breakage to ensure that the full edition quota could be produced. But bear in mind not all limited editions were necessarily produced to the full quantity - amply illustrated by Charlton which often shows actual numbers made were below the full edition for Caithness.

In general the trade prices was 50% and seconds could be sold above that price in the factory shop.

So I guess it is fair to say that a considerable number of seconds were simply surplus to the edition but perfect. So if you are puzzled as to why your second looks so good, you know that it probably is a perfect piece.

Once word spreads, will we get listings on eBay differentiating between perfect seconds and second seconds  ;) will that result in a 3 tier market? Well with the wide range of prices achieved for any single item I guess it would make little difference other than perhaps drawing attention to the really flawed items - which would themselves be an interesting study area as they give an indication of the quality control and skills to hand.
Title: Re: Caithness C11G confirmation please
Post by: Roger H on November 05, 2011, 04:29:48 PM
  Thanks very much for the inside knowledge those who can do so. I have never worked in or near a glass factory so have to pick up info from others about the business of making and running them. Regards Roger.
Title: Re: Caithness C11G confirmation please
Post by: Frank on November 05, 2011, 05:05:09 PM
Like any business, surviving is the challenge.