Glass Message Board
Glass Identification - Post here for all ID requests => Glass Paperweights => Topic started by: Morgan48 on November 01, 2011, 05:59:57 PM
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Good evening GMB and all
Over the years I've seen a fair number of Caithness weights with the C11G etching on the base. This seems to mainly be on "older" Caithness weights. I have read that this indicates these are seconds.... can someone please confirm this
Many thanks and regards
Gareth
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It does indeed Gareth :hi: :hi: :hi: - it's lovely to "see" you - I hope you're well and doing great! :kissy:
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Many thanks Sue.... good to see you still tinkling the ivories..!!.... :hiclp: ....... It seems Caithness must have pushed out quite a barrow load of duff ones then.... :o
Hope all is well with you too..... take care :)
Many regards
Gareth
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One could simply decide they got awfully fussy about what constitutes a fault, Gareth. ;D
I'm often pushed to find any flaws in bits marked as such.
What matters is, is it a lovely piece or something rather more ordinary? :usd:
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Caithness gift shop probably did a very good trade in seconds to visitors that would otherwise not have bought. As such it would make perfectly good business sense to ensure that the supply was able to meet the demand. The workers were very good so wastage was minimal - it would thus be no surprise if weights were marked as seconds purely for commercial reasons.
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That makes good business sense. I have a Caithness marked as a second but could not really find anything wrong with it until I compared the colour of the ground with a "first". Mine was a fair bit darker, but I actually prefered it.
Regards Roger.
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Colours were varied particularly in long editions, I cannot see colour as a 2nd criteria.
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Well Frank if you say that is the case, I can't see anything wrong with my C11G. So I suppose we will have to revert to the Caithness selling stategy, thanks for the info.
Regards Roger.
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I have a couple of seconds - of limited edition pieces.
My Helen MacDonald "Edinburgh Rock" has a few swirls in the casing if you look carefully enough - but it's not been faceted or engraved like the non-seconds.
I've also got 2 large "Free-form" chargers, one has a bit of a bulge falling down from the underside, the other I cannot fault - unless you count one tiny elongated bubble. As these are both completely unmarked, I am assuming they're seconds, given they're limited editions of 250.
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I too have seen a lot of CIIG weights with no apparent faults but I do know for sure that Caithness often did experimental or trial weights and rather than waste these they were sold off as seconds in the shop. Similalrly Whitefriars sold seconds in their factory shop marked with an S scratched on the base and many of these had no faults but I believe they were perfect and used to stock the shop.
Dave
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i thought that if they did not match the original design that they were called CII2. nothing wrong with them just fussy designers ;D
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I have never seen or heard of any weight marked CII2 I thought all seconds were marked CIIG but maybe someone else can comment better on this
Dave
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Some are scratched C2G, otherwise its CIIG.
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Some are scratched C2G, otherwise its CIIG.
thats what i meant a bit of a typo there
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...Similalrly Whitefriars sold seconds in their factory shop marked with an S scratched on the base and many of these had no faults but I believe they were perfect and used to stock the shop.
Dave
Which would seem to confirm a sensible business practise.
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and dont forget , even prototypes " as non standard production " were marked as seconds
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It has been drawn to my attention that it was not an uncommon glassworks practise to produce more than required for a limited edition. This allowing for seconds and breakage to ensure that the full edition quota could be produced. But bear in mind not all limited editions were necessarily produced to the full quantity - amply illustrated by Charlton which often shows actual numbers made were below the full edition for Caithness.
In general the trade prices was 50% and seconds could be sold above that price in the factory shop.
So I guess it is fair to say that a considerable number of seconds were simply surplus to the edition but perfect. So if you are puzzled as to why your second looks so good, you know that it probably is a perfect piece.
Once word spreads, will we get listings on eBay differentiating between perfect seconds and second seconds ;) will that result in a 3 tier market? Well with the wide range of prices achieved for any single item I guess it would make little difference other than perhaps drawing attention to the really flawed items - which would themselves be an interesting study area as they give an indication of the quality control and skills to hand.
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Thanks very much for the inside knowledge those who can do so. I have never worked in or near a glass factory so have to pick up info from others about the business of making and running them. Regards Roger.
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Like any business, surviving is the challenge.