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Glass Identification - Post here for all ID requests => Glass Paperweights => Topic started by: mildawg on September 17, 2011, 07:55:28 PM

Title: Is this a real Sautner piece?
Post by: mildawg on September 17, 2011, 07:55:28 PM
Anyone have any thoughts?  I contacted the lady for a few questions and did not get a comfortable feeling.  Smoking deal if it is real.  Also are all his pieces signed?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/250890273163?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1438.l2649
Title: Re: Is this a real Sautner piece?
Post by: tropdevin on September 17, 2011, 09:17:35 PM
***

I'd focus hard on the 'not sure if it is some kind of resin or plastic' comment, if I was bidding! But it could just be a bargain.

Alan
Title: Re: Is this a real Sautner piece?
Post by: mildawg on September 17, 2011, 09:25:53 PM
That was my major concern and a question I asked.  They felt fairly certain it was not glass.  I suspect though most not familar with this technique may feel it would not be glass.  Looking at that first pic, it looks like the brown "vines" have a gap at about the 5 o'clock mark.  Additional pics that were sent were small...maybe they didn't know how to work a camera?  Or maybe they didn't want them large.  Glad i went with my gut on this one....I think I am anyway?
Title: Re: Is this a real Sautner piece?
Post by: paperweights on September 17, 2011, 10:39:08 PM
So, which way did you go?  Did you buy it or not?  I don't think it is by Sautner and I'm glad I didn't see it.  I would have been tempted.  Take a look at the 1989 PCA annual for pieces of his work to compare.  He put a lot more detail into his work.  And for a three color design, he would have done something really distinctive.  That's my opinion, anyway.
Title: Re: Is this a real Sautner piece?
Post by: mildawg on September 17, 2011, 11:10:31 PM
Tempted I was, but I passed.  Well actually I was going to pass but put in a "small" bid at the end.  But by the time I hit the enter button it was already past my bid.  I was willing to take gamble for a few hundred..not a thousand though.  

I found one very similar in the selman fall 2010 auction (lot 190)...looks more detailed and the lattice is further from the clear in all Sautners work I've seen.  The extra pics I asked for didn't confirm anything I was looking for but they were really to small and not pics of what I really wanted.  Who knows, maybe someone did get a nice deal, but I don't think so.

http://www.selman.com/cgi-bin/htmlos.cgi/004411.4.3641734765220924840
Title: Re: Is this a real Sautner piece?
Post by: paperweights on September 18, 2011, 01:02:42 AM
My first opinion was wrong.  Based on lot 190 in Selman's Fall 2010 auction, I think it is a Sautner.  It sold for $6,000 in the Selman auction.  It is a shame that the eBay pictures don't show all the detail.   :huh:
Title: Re: Is this a real Sautner piece?
Post by: chopin-liszt on September 18, 2011, 12:15:31 PM
 :spls:
Plastic or resin should float, while glass should sink in a bowl of water. 
It should be easy enough to test that.
Title: Re: Is this a real Sautner piece?
Post by: chopin-liszt on September 18, 2011, 01:39:12 PM
 :pb:

I have just been corrected, very kindly and politely, by Wuff, who knows a great deal more about Physics than I do.
He says:-

"....depends on the composition - there are resins/plastics (e.g. perspex) with relative densities larger than unity - so they wouldn't float, just sink a lot slower."


Title: Re: Is this a real Sautner piece?
Post by: mildawg on September 18, 2011, 03:30:37 PM
They were saying the clear was glass, the branches and flowers were "resin".  The reasons I don't think it is (and not only because I want to believe I didn't pass up a bargain) is comparing to the selman one and one on Leo Kaplan is the branhes appear further from the clear and the post are more pronounced.  I am not sure of this but I also think the outer circle, if you will, is solid and does not have openings as seen in the one on ebay.  And lastly, fairly certain his are all signed, no signature was found on this one.  I had myself convinced early on it was real, but on further research I started questioning myself.  Maybe the winner will stuble across this and let us know.  Plus it looks like there is a crack between the 12 and 1 position one the bottom.


http://leokaplanltd.1stdibs.com/store/furniture_item_detail.php?id=408836
Title: Re: Is this a real Sautner piece?
Post by: paperweights on September 18, 2011, 04:01:22 PM
I think you are splitting hairs.  Barry Sautner did marvelous work and each piece was a little different. 

As for his signature, it is often hard to find.  I have a Barry Sautner umbilical man that I won as a door prize at the 1995 PCA meeting in Springfield, MA.  It is signed on the bottom of one foot.  It would be very easy to miss that. 
Title: Re: Is this a real Sautner piece?
Post by: Max on September 18, 2011, 04:23:16 PM
I don't know anything about paperweights, but have followed this with interest.  If this was made out of resin/plastic, wouldn't we find more of them for sale?  For someone to design a direct copy in resin/plastic and only make one of them, seems...unlikely?

Title: Re: Is this a real Sautner piece?
Post by: tropdevin on September 18, 2011, 06:19:25 PM
***

Good point, Max. I suspect this one is a genuine Sautner - and a bargain.

Alan
Title: Re: Is this a real Sautner piece?
Post by: alpha on September 18, 2011, 07:00:10 PM
For anyone else who had trouble finding the Selman website with the old auction stuff, here is the link to the Fall 2010 auction. Look for lot 190 as mentioned by Allan.
http://www.selman.com/cgi-bin/htmlos.cgi/008115.3.3626029896210482498
Title: Re: Is this a real Sautner piece?
Post by: Wuff on September 23, 2011, 08:31:53 PM
You all are getting a second chance:
http://cgi.ebay.ch/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=260858353566
Title: Re: Is this a real Sautner piece?
Post by: Lustrousstone on September 23, 2011, 10:06:44 PM
Only now it's got a chunk missing!
Title: Re: Is this a real Sautner piece?
Post by: Max on September 23, 2011, 10:35:24 PM
It doesn't inspire confidence, does it?   ::)
Title: Re: Is this a real Sautner piece?
Post by: mildawg on September 23, 2011, 10:46:49 PM
All i will say is buyer beware.
Title: Re: Is this a real Sautner piece?
Post by: scavo on September 23, 2011, 11:16:51 PM
Only now it's got a chunk missing!


I think it had a chunk missing originally. Look at the middle pic. on the original add.
Title: Re: Is this a real Sautner piece?
Post by: scavo on September 23, 2011, 11:18:20 PM
If you pay with Paypal and you're not happy, for what ever reason ...
Title: Re: Is this a real Sautner piece?
Post by: KevinH on September 24, 2011, 10:38:16 PM
Seems to me that the flower petal damage was not noticed first time around. The middle photo in the first listing is the same as one of the extended set of images in the relist. The flower with the chipped petal was not shown fully in any of the original photos.

I feel this is a genuine Sautner and perhaps a good opportunity for someone to obtain something quite special at a less than regular price. It's a pity I spent my next six three month's food allowance on weights today otherwise I might have considered the Sautner as an option. Well, maybe!

 
Title: Re: Is this a real Sautner piece?
Post by: tropdevin on September 25, 2011, 06:51:59 AM
***

Under EU Distance Selling legislation you can send an item back for any reason if you could not inspect it before purchase and you paid a fixed price.  This legislation does not apply to auctions (including eBay auctions) - if you win an eBay auction, that is a legally binding contract, and you cannot just decide you do not want the item, and breach the contract - regardless of how you choose to pay.

But if an item is wrongly described you can seek to get your money back in any sale, of course - however, you need to prove that it is wrongly described (in court if necessary).

Alan
Title: Re: Is this a real Sautner piece?
Post by: chopin-liszt on September 25, 2011, 10:36:08 AM
There are beautiful flowers in my garden which have bits missing from their petals - eaten by slugs.
Perfection isn't really natural.... (or normal  >:D )
Title: Re: Is this a real Sautner piece?
Post by: paperweights on September 29, 2011, 02:37:32 AM
Not bad, it sold for almost as much the second time around even with the damage noted.  $811 US. 
Title: Re: Is this a real Sautner piece?
Post by: mildawg on September 29, 2011, 01:51:25 PM
I thought there might have been the slight possibility of it going for a little more now that it was identified as Sautner.  Still a decent find at that price.