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Glass Discussion & Research. NO IDENTIFICATION REQUESTS here please. => Murano & Italy Glass => Topic started by: Pinkspoons on April 19, 2011, 12:36:09 PM

Title: Wirkkala for Venini
Post by: Pinkspoons on April 19, 2011, 12:36:09 PM
A recent acquisition that I'm struggling to find a reference for - a large 4-part incalmo bowl/vase with two ambery-green sections, a thin band of dark green, and an inset base of a subtly opalescent ruby.

Signed to the base Venini TW 86, and bearing a 1980s plastic label.

It's not illustrated in the Deboni volumes, although it might be related to 'Pianissimo'...  :huh:

Any suggestions? (apologies for the photo quality)
Title: Re: Wirkkala for Venini
Post by: antiquerose123 on April 19, 2011, 03:34:18 PM
????????????

Just off the top of my head, could it say Venini Toso 86, but that in JUST a Guess ??????????????

 :thud:
Title: Re: Wirkkala for Venini
Post by: tam bam on April 19, 2011, 03:49:42 PM
Hi Pinkspoons,
 
Tapio Wirkkala passed away in 1985 so I doubt your piece was designed by him.  Although he did design incalmo pieces for Venini.  Your piece is just stunning.  I will try to do more research on what the tw is and what it means to Venini. 

tam bam
Title: Re: Wirkkala for Venini
Post by: antiquerose123 on April 19, 2011, 03:55:37 PM
Is this something ** HERE  (http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:MRfdSUbDJKsJ:www.liveauctioneers.com/item/6815044+glass+signed+Venini+TW+86&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=ca&source=www.google.ca) and also  ** HERE  (http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:3pFdoDKGvLIJ:www.great-glass.co.uk/glass%2520notes/markt-z.htm+glass+signed+Venini+TW+86&cd=7&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=ca&source=www.google.ca)  Scroll to the Highlighted areas... :)

??? From 1989, scroll to the highlighted areas here too -- No picture  Click Here  (http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:3rDqy3ueBa0J:www.bonhams.com/cgi-bin/public.sh/pubweb/publicSite.r%3FsContinent%3DEUR%26screen%3DWholeCataloguePrint%26iSaleNo%3D17951+glass+signed+Venini+TW+86&cd=12&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=ca&source=www.google.ca)
Title: Re: Wirkkala for Venini
Post by: Ivo on April 19, 2011, 04:17:24 PM
I have one Incalmo TW from the Venini years and it is signed Venini Italia (one line) and has a square block transparent label. I have never found a reasonable listing of TW production while he was AD at Venini..
Title: Re: Wirkkala for Venini
Post by: Pinkspoons on April 19, 2011, 04:19:30 PM
I think the 1986 date refers to year of production, rather than year of design. I've seen a few widely catalogued Wirkkala designs, originally from the mid/late 60s, bearing 1980s labels and this same 'TW' signature with varying years.
Title: Re: Wirkkala for Venini
Post by: Pinkspoons on April 19, 2011, 04:22:43 PM
This design is listed in Deboni (as a design from 1966):

http://cgi.ebay.com/Tapio-Wirkkala-Glass-Platter-Charger-Venini-1988-/160484711578
Title: Re: Wirkkala for Venini
Post by: Pinkspoons on April 19, 2011, 04:29:29 PM
I'm struggling with that too, Ivo. It seems all sources focus almost exclusively on the 4-5 well known series he produced (a common problem I'm finding for a few designers within Murano literature).
Title: Re: Wirkkala for Venini
Post by: tam bam on April 19, 2011, 06:19:51 PM
Ok, after doing some more researching perhaps Venini reproduced the design in a later year like they do for their Versace line.  I wasn't thinking about that possibility until about 5 minutes ago.  It is very possible you have a Wirkkala design that was reproduced at a later date.  Perhaps it was tribute to him passing the previous year.  Who knows?  Venini is a very complicated company.  I would write to them and see what they say about the piece.  They are pretty good about responding to emails.

tam bam  

P.S. - Good job, Rose!
Title: Re: Wirkkala for Venini
Post by: TxSilver on April 19, 2011, 08:07:38 PM
Venini does have things that were designed in one year, then made or reproduced in later years. I remember one time seeing a fish signed Fulvio Bianconi that was made a year after he died according to the dates. I wrote the Bianconi family to ask about it, and yes, it was a Bianconi design. It really isn't unusual if one thinks about it. The glass is not signed by the person themselves, but by someone else simply stating who did the design. (I wonder if they might reproduce the designs a year after the person dies as a tribute since the Bianconi fish and this bowl were made a year after the deaths. I've never heard this one way or another, but it would be a wonderful tribute, especially if some of the money goes to the estates or charity.)
Title: Re: Wirkkala for Venini
Post by: Pinkspoons on April 19, 2011, 08:23:23 PM
It's a nice thought, but the very droolworthy large charger in the eBay link above is dated for 1988 - three years after his death.

I'll try dropping Venini an email - perhaps they can shed some light on the series name, if it had one, and its original design date.
Title: Re: Wirkkala for Venini
Post by: langhaugh on April 20, 2011, 06:37:23 AM
Nic:

Is the diameter of your bowl 28 cm? If so, it's pictured on p. 292 of Designlasin, which has most, if not all, of Wirkkala's designs for Venini. There's a bowl and a big vase. There's no name given for the design. The description (it's in Finnish) says something about different production periods affecting the value, which would be consistent with your label and signature.

Asking Venini is the best idea.  Nice piece, btw.

David

Title: Re: Wirkkala for Venini
Post by: Pinkspoons on April 20, 2011, 07:10:43 AM
Excellent. Thanks for that. I don't suppose it gives a year of design?

I tried getting in touch with Venini, but after filling in the contact form the site decided that it didn't like IE7 and went straight to an error page.  >:(
Title: Re: Wirkkala for Venini
Post by: kane_u_pain on April 20, 2011, 09:39:54 AM
I think the 1986 date refers to year of production, rather than year of design. I've seen a few widely catalogued Wirkkala designs, originally from the mid/late 60s, bearing 1980s labels and this same 'TW' signature with varying years.

I have a few earlier pieces by Tapio signed TW. It is most likely a re-issued (for lack of a better word - i am drained) design by Tapio for Venini to celebrate a great designer after his death in 1985. After all, wasn't he the only designer to have his name on pieces produced at Venini?! . So i think this is very respectful to the memory of someone who's design and influence did not only include glass. I think it is an authentic piece and a great find.
Title: Re: Wirkkala for Venini
Post by: langhaugh on April 20, 2011, 10:35:27 AM
Nic:

Designlasin gives dates of production rather than year of design. My translation of the Finnish (not totally reliable) says that it was produced in the 80's and then separately in the 90's, so you've got the one of the first runs. Venini: Catalogue Raisonne has Wirkkala working for Venini until 1980 although it doesn't show any designs he did after 1972.

David
Title: Re: Wirkkala for Venini
Post by: Pinkspoons on April 20, 2011, 11:16:40 AM
Oh, so Designlasin is (possibly) intimating that it was a Wirkkala design not produced immediately after it was designed, but was issued for the first time after his death? Or am I reading it wrong?

Holmegaard did something similar last decade with some Verner Panton lighting designs they'd had in archive since the 1960s.
Title: Re: Wirkkala for Venini
Post by: langhaugh on April 20, 2011, 11:22:12 AM
Nic:

My take is that that was designed very late in Wirrkala's stay at Venini, produced in the 80's, including the period after he left Venini, and then produced again in the 1990's. I don't think it's possible to be more definitive than that, at least from using Designlasi.  I still think contacting Venini will give you the best info.

David
Title: Re: Wirkkala for Venini
Post by: Pinkspoons on April 20, 2011, 11:30:43 AM
The design looks closer the items he was producing in the 1960s - but I suppose most designers revisit their past eventually.

I'll try contacting Venini again through a different browser.
Title: Re: Wirkkala for Venini
Post by: langhaugh on April 21, 2011, 02:15:39 AM
I just noticed that Bill Geary's book Scandinavian Glass has Wirkkala working for Venini until 1982, not a big change, but closer to 1986.

David
Title: Re: Wirkkala for Venini
Post by: Pinkspoons on April 21, 2011, 05:23:53 AM
Deboni also gives 1982 in the 2-volume Venini book.
Title: Re: Wirkkala for Venini
Post by: MuranoArtGlassChandeliers on August 17, 2011, 03:01:13 PM
Hi guys

This piece is known as a "BULLSEYE" bowl for obvious reasons.  A mainstay item for Venini

Ciao

Dean
Title: Re: Wirkkala for Venini
Post by: Pinkspoons on August 21, 2011, 10:14:31 PM
Thanks. Do you have a catalogue reference for it? I've failed to locate it anywhere in the literature I have, and contacting Venini directly got me nowhere.
Title: Re: Wirkkala for Venini
Post by: langhaugh on August 21, 2011, 10:26:21 PM
Nic:

It might be called "Bullseye" on eBay but that's not what Venini called it.  I have a catalogue of Wirkkala's work for Venini, but the fact that it is in Finnish makes it hard for me distinguish exactly which model you have.  As you said originally, it might be "Pianissimo" but I think it's more likely to be "Tapio," model 530.1, perhaps. That model isn't in Deboni. How tall is your piece?

David
Title: Re: Wirkkala for Venini
Post by: Pinkspoons on August 21, 2011, 10:27:30 PM
Actually, just had a quick rummage - and found the design!

According to the exhibition catalogue Tapio Wirkkala (Taideteolisuusmuseo, Helsinki in 2000), the design was executed around 1985 and first produced in 1986. Second round of production was circa 1992.

No mention of 'Bullseye', though (or any name, unfortunately).
Title: Re: Wirkkala for Venini
Post by: Pinkspoons on August 21, 2011, 10:28:41 PM
Oh, it's packed away at the moment... but I'd say it's about 150mm / 6" tall... or a smidge smaller.

'Tapio', if it is such, is an apt name for it if it was first made the year following his death.  :)
Title: Re: Wirkkala for Venini
Post by: langhaugh on August 22, 2011, 12:48:07 AM
Checked the TW:  Venini Catalogue against Designlasin and the images don't quite match.  It's amazing how much a total lack of knowledge of a language can be an obstacle to understanding.   I still think it's "Tapio," which is the design pictured on p292 Of Designlasin, but I wouldn't bet my glass collection on it (or any part of it). Still a lovely authentic piece.

David
Title: Re: Wirkkala for Venini
Post by: Pinkspoons on August 22, 2011, 01:02:35 AM
Thanks for taking another look - I'll see if I can unearth anything new with the additional information.  :)

It is a wonderful piece - it's so thin and delicate that it feels like plastic when you handle it, but it rings like a deep bell if you give it a tap.
Title: Re: Wirkkala for Venini
Post by: Ivo on August 23, 2011, 03:34:25 PM
after filling in the contact form the site decided that it didn't like IE7

Still driving the Edsel, then?
Title: Re: Wirkkala for Venini
Post by: Pinkspoons on August 23, 2011, 04:45:02 PM
 ;D

I'm not a fan of Chrome's absence of on-screen features, Firefox is painfully slow and looks just like Chrome, and so I settle for IE (now on 8, but not 9 - they cut a load of features out that I regularly use). IE8's quite buggy, though, so I'll eventually abandon it.

Could be worse - I could be using IE6.  :-X