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Glass Identification - Post here for all ID requests => Glass Paperweights => Topic started by: karelm on February 21, 2007, 03:48:06 PM

Title: How are double overlay weights made?
Post by: karelm on February 21, 2007, 03:48:06 PM
HI,
Has anybody got a link (or knows the process) how double overlays are done?
For example, is the overlay doen after the facets are cut?...but before they are polished etc.
Thanks,
KarelM
Title: Re: How are double overlay weights made?
Post by: Frank on February 21, 2007, 03:50:14 PM
The overlays are done before cutting.
Title: Re: How are double overlay weights made?
Post by: glasstrufflehunter on February 21, 2007, 05:43:22 PM
For overlays the color to be applied is made separately and looks like a cup and is melted onto the surface of the weight. In the case of a double overlay, a white layer is applied first then a translucent layer in whatever color the finished product is to be. Once the weight is cold, the facets are cut leaving windows for a peek inside.

I find encased overlays very fascinating. That's where after the above is done, the whole is then encased again, often what another overlay over that.
Title: Re: How are double overlay weights made?
Post by: aa on February 21, 2007, 10:53:26 PM
I find encased overlays very fascinating. That's where after the above is done, the whole is then encased again, often what another overlay over that.

Do you have an image of one of these? Not quite sure what you mean.
Thanks :)
Title: Re: How are double overlay weights made?
Post by: glasstrufflehunter on February 21, 2007, 11:31:39 PM
I don't have any pictures or examples in my personal collection but there is a picture of an encased double overlay on Peggy Burke's site. It's the third one down. http://www.paperweightsplus.com/phdi/p1.nsf/supppages/pwp?opendocument&part=5

I haven't found a picture of an encased overlay that has been overlayed again but I've seen them. I believe Perthshire made one.
Title: Re: How are double overlay weights made?
Post by: aa on February 21, 2007, 11:39:01 PM
Great site. I'm familiar with double overlays but I'd like to see what you mean by an encased one, because it sounds as if you're saying that it is one that is cut and then reheated and overlaid. Or have I misunderstood?
Title: Re: How are double overlay weights made?
Post by: KevinH on February 22, 2007, 12:29:13 AM
Adam, yes, that's right.

The double overlay weight, having been cut and finished is then re-heated and encased and then either faceted, or once more overlayed and cut.

Not too many folk attempt this but Perthshire Paperweights made a few one-offs and special editions which were described in "The Complete Guide ..." as, "Encased Double Overlay" or "Double Overlay Encased Double Overlay" or "Double Overlay Encased Triple Overlay".

Sorry but I, too, do not have any photos of these incredible pieces of work, but I had one in my hands a few years ago.
Title: Re: How are double overlay weights made?
Post by: aa on February 22, 2007, 08:08:58 AM
This would be extremely difficult to achieve successfully. Probably why there are so few examples.
Title: Re: How are double overlay weights made?
Post by: mjr on February 22, 2007, 08:24:48 AM
It is very difficult (in fact impossible) to find an image of a double encased double overlay on the web!!   

This is a nice example of an encased double overlay http://www.lhselmanltd.com/auc25/43.html

As an idea of what they might look like, here is a picture of a Perthsire which I think is a double encased double flash overlay - although I could be wrong...  http://www.lhselmanltd.com/auc27/48.html   For Karelm and aa , flash overlay differs in that instead of using a glass cup, the hot weight is rolled in couloured glass powder and reheated until a good layer is applied. This can then be removed by  cutting and facetting. The picture - one of the Perthshire hollow blown series, has been given a flash overlay, facetted then encased , then given another flasj overlay and faceted again. 

As Kevin indicates, Perthshire did a number of  d.e.d.a  weights. See http://www.pcatx.org/interest.htm  (Paperweight Collectors Association of Texas). Just over half way down is a reference to a talk given about Perthshires final year. This refers to a CD they have that shows 52 Perthshire double-encased double-overlay paperweights. Now if anyone has any contacts there to get a view.

And as aa suggests - it is all very difficult since every process is doubled, the weight has to be heated and cooled more than once so additional fracture/ennealing problems, and given wastage and the percentage of weights have faults, the amount of work that could be lost. 
Title: Re: How are double overlay weights made?
Post by: karelm on February 24, 2007, 06:12:19 PM
Thanks all,
This explains a lot.  I have a weight that is less than well but from the above (and a brilliant article that I got via email) it seems that the maker would not know the quality of the weight until it is cut and therefore one can understand that a weight is allowed to go through with a couple of faults!!! :'(  Having had a look at encased weights (which I never knew about) those are amazing!!!)
On this subject but a different line, I have today been offered a double overlay drinking glass...anyone know anything about these (such as fair price etc) or should I post this to the glass section?
Thanks once again,
KarelM
Title: Re: How are double overlay weights made?
Post by: Anne on February 24, 2007, 08:04:42 PM
Glass section would be the place for the drinking glass, please Karel. :)
Title: Double overlay id help needed
Post by: karelm on February 25, 2007, 02:52:34 PM
Hi all,
This is the weight that prompted my question about how these weights are made:
top view: http://glassgallery.yobunny.org.uk/displayimage.php?pos=-5326
side view: http://glassgallery.yobunny.org.uk/displayimage.php?pos=-5325
The weight is light blue overlayed on white. It is about 7cm by 7cm and has 5+1 facets.  The base is polished smooth and has a facet (as I presume all duble overlays have on the base?).
From the pictures you can clearly see the cane that fell over during the making of the weight (12 o'clock 3rd ring).
Also, as mentioned elsewhere, the mushroom is floating (terms correct  ???) and does not have a pulled stem.
I obviously could not find a makers mark or date or signature cane.
Thanks once again!!!
Title: Re: How are double overlay weights made?
Post by: KevinH on February 25, 2007, 05:11:44 PM
Quote
mushroom is floating (terms correct ???)
The term is as correct as any other - unless somebody knows what the Murano makers called it. In the exhibition of weights at the recent UK Cambridge Glass Fair, a similar weight was shown (with green over white overlay) and the description was "floating umbrella".

Quote
base is polished smooth and has a facet (as I presume all duble overlays have on the base?).
Yes, because the base will not have any overlay, there will always be a clear section, and if this is not finished with polishing, (and perhaps with added cross-cutting or a star-cut), the "cracking off" will show through the weight via the facets.
Title: Re: How are double overlay weights made?
Post by: karelm on February 25, 2007, 05:33:21 PM
Hi,
It seems that you are saying that this might be a Murano weight...at least that gives me a clue.
Also as to the base, I have seen the term "strawberry cut"?? in print, not related to this weight but apparently other double overlays?? 
Title: Re: How are double overlay weights made?
Post by: glasstrufflehunter on February 25, 2007, 07:51:32 PM
Strawberry cut is not limited to double overlays. It's a fine cut 'crosshatching' on the base. It's also called 'diamond cut'.
Title: Re: How are double overlay weights made?
Post by: KevinH on February 25, 2007, 11:59:12 PM
Quote
... you are saying that this might be a Murano weight
Not "might be" ... it is Murano. There are many like it, in various colours. These occasionally appear on eBay and also in dealer websites. Some are very good and others have a flaw or two, such as the slipped cane in your example. Also, in these patterns without a stem, the canes are easily seen as 'quite long' and of different lengths, showing as an uneven edge, and this is very typical of many Murano millefiori weights. Where a stem is used, for a true "mushroom" design, the canes are of course drawn down and therefore look tidy, but often in the Murano ones, the stem is a bit thin and can be slightly bent instead of perfectly upright. Unfortunately I have not found out which Murano company (or companies) make these.
Title: Re: How are double overlay weights made?
Post by: glasstrufflehunter on February 26, 2007, 01:58:16 AM
I saw one on Ebay a while ago that had Fratelli Toso canes in it. It had 'Baccarat' etched on the bottom. The seller had a bunch of Fratelli Toso scratched marked as various makers including St. Louis. The irony was that he would have gotten a lot of bids on them anyway if he had them properly identified as Toso.
Title: Re: How are double overlay weights made?
Post by: karelm on February 26, 2007, 09:19:01 AM
Thanks KevH, that solves that mystery  ;D
Karelm
PS: Thanks trufflehunter for the clarification on the strawberry cut.
Title: Re: How are double overlay weights made?
Post by: daveweight on February 26, 2007, 07:48:20 PM
Here is a picture of my PErrthsire double overlay encase douuble overlay - on eof my all time favourite weights
Dave

http://i17.tinypic.com/35k4me0.jpg

Moderator: Large image converted to link
Title: Re: How are double overlay weights made?
Post by: aa on February 26, 2007, 08:18:22 PM
Wow! Thanks. :)
Title: Re: How are double overlay weights made?
Post by: Nadine on February 27, 2007, 12:45:52 AM
Another nice example:

http://www.paperweights24.de/shop/images/product_images/popup_images/261_0.jpg

Best wishes
Nadine

Moderator: Large image converted to link
Title: Re: How are double overlay weights made?
Post by: karelm on February 27, 2007, 08:56:54 AM
Both of those weights are stunning!!!!! My double overlay looks boring in comparison, yet it is still one of my favourites!
BTW the glass I mentioned earlier turned out not to be a double overlay, I still bought it  ;D. I have posted it in the glass section for id but no response yet...and it has slipped to the second page so I think I'll leave it for now and try to id it later. 
Kind regards
Title: Re: How are double overlay weights made?
Post by: glasstrufflehunter on February 27, 2007, 07:13:03 PM
Both of those paperweights are absolutely stunning. A double double is like the holy grail of paperweights to me.