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Glass Identification - Post here for all ID requests => Glass => Topic started by: flying free on February 14, 2012, 12:02:13 AM

Title: 19th century, probably Bohemian, overshot glass large footed vase with gilding
Post by: flying free on February 14, 2012, 12:02:13 AM
I was very excited to find this at the weekend  :o
stands 20cm (8") tall by 9cm wide at foot and rim.  The foot is completely hollow right up to where the bowl is joined on top and has a flat polished rim, bevelled edge on both inside and outside.

I'm a huge fan of overshot glass and I have particularly coveted some of these pieces on a certain website for a long time. I would have  loved Paul's Nautilus shells  ( linked below for future reference)   I believe they are from a similar era and also probably Bohemian and  they are remarkably similar in style to my goblet.  However this is a good second best  ;D  It sparkles brilliantly under lighting and is in fantastic condition and with no dirty patches.  

So, this is my new addition to 'my favourite pieces'.  I have found Spanish and French overshot pieces ( and some that are mentioned as 'Victorian English' but I wasn't sure they actually were) but none are the same somehow as this.  Bohemian feels right although I can't be 100% sure.
pauls link here http://www.glassmessages.com/index.php/topic,44873.msg250092.html#msg250092
m
Title: Re: 19th century, probably Bohemian, overshot glass large footed vase with gilding
Post by: keith on February 14, 2012, 12:35:12 AM
Very nice :mrgreen: :mrgreen: and I'm not 'into' glasses,is that overshot on crackle? ;D ;D
Title: Re: 19th century, probably Bohemian, overshot glass large footed vase with gilding
Post by: flying free on February 14, 2012, 12:49:22 AM
Keith it's not a glass I don't think. The rim (the bit painted gold) is slightly narrower than the body of the bowl and at 8" tall by 3 3/4" wide you'd be pretty drunk after one glass lol.  It may be a 'chalice' type thing, but I think it is just a vase.  The overshot is not 'over' crackle but it has 'crackled' slightly so possibly rolled in shards then blown out very slightly afterwards.
Title: Re: 19th century, probably Bohemian, overshot glass large footed vase with gilding
Post by: keith on February 14, 2012, 03:47:23 PM
8 inches tall! may be a tad much for a large scotch :o :o ;D ;D
Title: Re: 19th century, probably Bohemian, overshot glass large footed vase with gilding
Post by: flying free on February 14, 2012, 11:08:01 PM
I need one of these to match this if it is a glass Keith  ;D  ...actually I need one of these even if it isn't a glass  :o
http://www.christies.com/lotfinder/lot_details.aspx?intObjectID=5463058
m
Title: Re: 19th century, probably Bohemian, overshot glass large footed vase with gilding
Post by: keith on February 15, 2012, 12:26:19 AM
Ooh yes,if you ever see two,save me one :thup: ;D ;D
Title: Re: 19th century, probably Bohemian, overshot glass large footed vase with gilding
Post by: Tigerchips on February 15, 2012, 01:49:35 PM
I have no idea about these sort of things but i was reading this post yesterday... http://www.glassmessages.com/index.php/topic,25682.0.html

There are one or two items there similar to yours, still no luck with attribution though.
Title: Re: 19th century, probably Bohemian, overshot glass large footed vase with gilding
Post by: flying free on February 15, 2012, 02:01:35 PM
Thankyou!! I remembered Max had some glasses but I could not find the thread for love nor money yesterday.
I thought they had been id'd as French? but I've found some Clichy pieces, and I thought the foot looked different so went off that idea...but that's not to say they couldn't be French I guess  :-\
m
Title: Re: 19th century, probably Bohemian, overshot glass large footed vase with gilding
Post by: flying free on February 15, 2012, 02:08:58 PM
the thread on Max's goblets here
for future reference
http://www.glassmessages.com/index.php/topic,6581.msg56078.html#msg56078
Title: Re: 19th century, probably Bohemian, overshot glass large footed vase with gilding
Post by: flying free on February 15, 2012, 02:23:56 PM
there is 'La Cristallerie de Clichy' book available online in limited viewing, but having been through I cannot see anything definitive that would link mine.
There are references to overshot glass - 'Cristal Granite' (with an accent on the e) on pages 159,140,154,184,186,187.
m
Title: Re: 19th century, probably Bohemian, overshot glass large footed vase with gilding
Post by: Max on February 15, 2012, 03:55:18 PM
Don't you DARE find any exciting information on that glass.  I gave mine away when I sold the shedfull of glass that I had for £250.  If you find anything, warn me so that I can either a) boil my head or b) run to the hills screaming or c) find you at a glass fair and kick your shins.   :rn: :o :rn:

Title: Re: 19th century, probably Bohemian, overshot glass large footed vase with gilding
Post by: flying free on February 15, 2012, 04:06:37 PM
I've been there Max  :hug: I sold something to the States a while ago for what was a good price for me...I've just seen it listed for 6 x what I sold it for ::)  not sold yet though  ;D

I've looked for information on this overshot for quite a long time - it's a peculiar passion of mine lol, but it's not in any of my books (mine are fairly meagre references for antique glass really though) and all I know is that it is fairly rare to see any pieces, never mind not damaged (and mine is not , hence my excitement).  If I do find anything I'll keep it to myself then  :ooh:
m
Title: Re: 19th century, probably Bohemian, overshot glass large footed vase with gilding
Post by: Max on February 15, 2012, 04:12:14 PM
::glares:::   ;)

Is this glass overshot though?  I'm not great (read rubbish) at technical stuff...but overshot doesn't seem like the right term to me...?
Title: Re: 19th century, probably Bohemian, overshot glass large footed vase with gilding
Post by: chopin-liszt on February 15, 2012, 04:24:12 PM
I've been getting curious about that too - overshot to me, means what I also sometimes know as "matthey crinkles" (I may have spelled that wrongly) that nasty-feeling texture gained from rolling hot glass in grains of  glass, which stick to it - like the Chance Spiderweb coloured bits.

(We had tumblers like this for our juice when we were kids - and they felt just horrible. I'm sure they're the reason I can't stand diluted squash!)
Title: Re: 19th century, probably Bohemian, overshot glass large footed vase with gilding
Post by: flying free on February 15, 2012, 04:38:57 PM
yes as far as I am aware it is i.e. rolled in bits ...but then reheated , and then blown out a bit further.  So the overshot is melted slightly so not sharp and it has the effect of the shards 'separating' once it has been blown out a bit  which makes it looks slightly crackled.  It's not blown into a textured mould for example. Well, I'm open to correction but as far as I know that is what this is....
It is different to say the overshot on my lampshade, which I believe was rolled in smaller bits and not blown out otherwise it would have lost the shape of the lampshade bowl bit, which was mould blown then rolled in shards.  With the lampshade I think the edges were hot worked once it had been rolled in shards,  but not the bowl bit....again I'm open to correction here.

m
Title: Re: 19th century, probably Bohemian, overshot glass large footed vase with gilding
Post by: chopin-liszt on February 15, 2012, 04:53:32 PM
Your beast here looks more as if it's been finely crizzled - ie. dipped in cold water to crack a hot surface then heated and reblown.  :spls:
Title: Re: 19th century, probably Bohemian, overshot glass large footed vase with gilding
Post by: flying free on February 15, 2012, 05:01:17 PM
I had another look at it after the question...and it is nothing like my other crackle glass pieces.  I think you would be hard pushed to create that level of crackle by dipping and reblowing without it falling apart...but again I could be wrong.  All my other crackle bits are fairly 'un-uniform' in their crackle, i.e. there are 'patches' of smooth glass between the crackles and some are tiny and some are large.  This piece is uniform in it's texture, quite sharp but not cutting sharp as it has been melted slightly.  I am pretty sure it is overshot.  It's just that Matthey Crinkles for example are much smaller bits than the shards used on my glass, and with Matthey pieces, once the glass has been rolled in Matthey crinkles it isn't blown out any further, leaving a piece just covered in the 'sharp'teeny tiny bits of crinkles, which makes it feel like sandpaper.
It's all the overshot technique, but the final outcome depends on how big the pieces of overshot were and whether it's been blown further or not I think.
m
Title: Re: 19th century, probably Bohemian, overshot glass large footed vase with gilding
Post by: flying free on February 15, 2012, 05:04:10 PM
edited to add article on overshot here
and I am open to correction on my description above
as I have significantly limited knowledge of the glass blowing process
 :-\
http://www.theglassmuseum.com/overshot.htm
m
Title: Re: 19th century, probably Bohemian, overshot glass large footed vase with gilding
Post by: chopin-liszt on February 15, 2012, 05:09:32 PM
 :thud:
I actually followed all that, M. :smg:
Now I need a rest, to recover.  :ooh:
Title: Re: 19th century, probably Bohemian, overshot glass large footed vase with gilding
Post by: Lustrousstone on February 15, 2012, 07:33:05 PM
Matthey Crinkles is completely different. A sticky "transfer" is put onto the cold item, which is then coated in powered frit. Refiring makes the transfer crinkle and presumably burn off so that the frit forms little fired-on clumps. Chance Expressions p16. P keeps her crinkly hyacinth vases in the bathroom!
Title: Re: 19th century, probably Bohemian, overshot glass large footed vase with gilding
Post by: flying free on February 15, 2012, 07:47:49 PM
ooh I had no idea that was how they were done.  Thanks :) btw I  read in Charles Hajdamach 20th century British glass, that those crinkly hyacinth vases (do you mean the pastel coloured ones with stripes of crinkles and gilt?) were imported from Czechoslovakia and sold in the UK.
m
Title: Re: 19th century, probably Bohemian, overshot glass large footed vase with gilding
Post by: Lustrousstone on February 15, 2012, 07:51:03 PM
They were.
Title: Re: 19th century, probably Bohemian, overshot glass large footed vase with gilding
Post by: Paul S. on February 15, 2012, 08:04:32 PM
ignoring my contributions, there were some sensible and interesting comments from people - re this kind of surface decoration -  in this link....http://www.glassmessages.com/index.php/topic,35577.msg193030.html#msg193030
Title: Re: 19th century, probably Bohemian, overshot glass large footed vase with gilding
Post by: flying free on February 15, 2012, 08:13:09 PM
thanks Paul good to link the pieces together for if the subject comes up again.  The description given of the overshot in Neuwirth of the piece being rolled in shards is the correct one for these pieces - Pamela's photo close-up is a good one (better than I managed to get this evening so didn't post them).
m
Title: Re: 19th century, probably Bohemian, overshot glass large footed vase with gilding
Post by: flying free on October 12, 2012, 11:06:48 PM
Most probably Harrach 1860's
see link
http://www.collectorsweekly.com/stories/69410-eisglas-mit-rosa-schangenhenkel-harrach?in=442
Mine does not have a snake on it but has an extra gilded knop above the foot instead - despite this I think it is highly likely mine is also Harrach.
Rather irritatingly I sold a covered box a while ago.
m