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Glass Discussion & Research. NO IDENTIFICATION REQUESTS here please. => Malta Glass => Topic started by: joolslee on May 06, 2006, 09:32:40 PM

Title: Info on Mdina Ornament - Axe head?
Post by: joolslee on May 06, 2006, 09:32:40 PM
Hi - I've decided to sell a Mdina ornament I bought in 1976 - I think it may be described as an Axe Head but I'd like to know for sure as I don't want to mis-describe it ... On the bottom it is inscribed Mdina Glass 1976 and there is also a signature but I can't make out the name ... excuse the jif lemon, it was all I could find for a size perspective  :)

http://www.knicknack.co.uk/mdna/

I'd appreciate any comments and, if possible, a guide price to start an ebay auction as I have no idea of it's value. Thank you.
Title: Info on Mdina Ornament - Axe head?
Post by: Tigerchips on May 06, 2006, 10:36:35 PM
Hi, welcome to the board. :D

It's Saturday so the board is a little on the quiet side. An expert on Mdina might drop in any moment, or perhaps tommorow.

I'm no expert but I do have books which are not always accurate.  :roll:  :lol:

For a moment I thought the vase was sitting on a clear glass tray. Now I can see that it's part of the vase and it's cased, I think.

I've looked in Millers and there is a similar one called a "Fish" vase. According to Miller's the "Axe Head" shape is known as a fish vase.

Does the signature say "Micheal Harris"? If so, (according to Millers) this doubles the price.

The brown colour in Millers is described as Tortoiseshell, I think. I'm not sure if this means all colours of brown.

I must say, it does look very impressive. 8)
Title: Info on Mdina Ornament - Axe head?
Post by: joolslee on May 06, 2006, 10:47:35 PM
Hello and thanks for your reply tigerchips ... the signature does look as though it contains two r's and possibly a dotted i ... in fact it was a Michael Harris vase I saw on Ebay that prompted me to dig my ornament out from the loft ... however, I think Michael Harris left Mdina before 1976 so I guess it can't be his signature  :(
So when you say it's "cased" ... is that a known term that I should use in the description ... I just love glass and buy because I like ... I know nothing of terminology.
Title: Info on Mdina Ornament - Axe head?
Post by: David555 on May 06, 2006, 10:51:07 PM
Yes I would say you have a beautiful Mdina Axe-Head vase

They appear to have been made with spade shaped bodies and also in less regular body shapes like your piece with sloping or sharp sides

The added trailing is also seen on some axe-heads

Michael Harris left Mdina in 1972 and the craftsmen he had trained took over - if it was new in 1976 I would be surprised if it had the Harris signature, although it may have been stock - can you let us see a photo of the date and signature?

Here is an axe-head unsigned sold on eBay - your vase is a less common colour and has a signature - I have seen the £100+ mark reached for such items

eBay link (http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Mdina-Axe-Head-Vase_W0QQitemZ7409410936QQcategoryZ64934QQcmdZViewItem)

Adam P
Title: Info on Mdina Ornament - Axe head?
Post by: David E on May 06, 2006, 10:57:41 PM
Sue (chopin-liszt) is one that can answer this, but it does look like an axe-head (properly known as 'Fish' as TC points out) vase. Slightly unusual shape, but Sue will probably slap me down :oops:  :wink:

Michael Harris left in 1972 and while his items do hold more value, later Fish vases are still highly collectable — just wished I had one, but Sue won't give me one!  :lol:

Casing is where there is an outer layer of glass, often clear, covers the interior decoration.
Title: Info on Mdina Ornament - Axe head?
Post by: David E on May 06, 2006, 11:00:53 PM
Just a thought: the signature isn't 'Boffo' is it? A photo of this would help.
Title: Info on Mdina Ornament - Axe head?
Post by: joolslee on May 06, 2006, 11:02:55 PM
Thank you David and DenCill ... the flash has gone on my camera so I'll try taking a pic of the signature in daylight tomorrow ... appreciate the welcome all.
Title: Info on Mdina Ornament - Axe head?
Post by: David555 on May 06, 2006, 11:24:02 PM
Hi

Isn't a fish vase round with two bubbles like eyes - that is what I am getting?
 
I have looked at about ten axe-heads in books and they are all spade shaped - some are rounded off I have to admit.

Your vase seems irregular for an axe head - I am not saying it isn't

It could be a 'hammer-head' or a free form piece - or ... it could be an axe-head.                        

I have about 20 pieces of Mdina, but favour faceted and textured pieces. As TC and David say,  Sue will know better as she has many pieces I think and has researched Mdina and IOW well.

Adam P
Title: Info on Mdina Ornament - Axe head?
Post by: chopin-liszt on May 07, 2006, 09:46:49 AM
:D:D:D

Hello! I'll try to clarify things a little!

This is definitely a Mdina "Fish" vase. The signature is most likely to be that of Joseph Said. (His signature is pretty illegible). Michael Harris' signature is small, neat and easily read. I do not know of a Boffo ever signing a piece, but if there is one, keep away, IT'S MINE!!!! :twisted:

As far as I know, (info from Lesley Jackson), Mdina made what were called "Fish" vases and "Lollipops". (no mention of any weapons)

The Fish vases were meant to look like Manta rays, from above, and are the ones where the casing is applied heavily to both sides of the vase, with strapping crossing over, like this one. The way the shoulders are finished off on this one are fairly typical of Said. Michael Harris' ones tend to have more sloping shoulders than bumpy, but these are all individual hand made pieces, and there is no hard and fast rule. (I'm not shooting you down about anything, David!). Lollipops are the rounded ones, fully cased.

However, I have seen certain particular lollipops described as fishes. These are the very big, flattened and faceted ones with three colours internally.

I also have a round vase, but it has strapping crossing over it, fish style.

Mark Hill has told me he thinks he may be responsible for describing these as axeheads, a very accurate description, and one I do not think will ever go away!  I believe it is the axehead description that has spawned "mallethead" and "hammerhead" to attempt to describe other shapes along the same sort of theme.

The signature will add value to this piece, which is very nice indeed. Personally, I like these brown fish vases the best. I don't know why.
They're doing quite well on eBay at the moment. I do not think a reserve of £150 would be unreasonable.
Title: Info on Mdina Ornament - Axe head?
Post by: joolslee on May 07, 2006, 11:06:32 AM
Thanks for the excellent info Sue and all ... I've added a couple of pics of the signature to the webpage now ... they're the best I could do with my camera ... the sig doesn't look like Said ... there's a clear upper loop at the beginning of the sig and definitely what looks like two r's in there but the rest is scribble ... i think it will take someone who is familiar with the various known sigs to identify it

http://www.knicknack.co.uk/mdna/
Title: Info on Mdina Ornament - Axe head?
Post by: chopin-liszt on May 07, 2006, 11:17:17 AM
:D:D:D

That is positively, definitely, absolutely, Joseph Said's signature.

Send the picture to Mdina - it will be confirmed, (if you get a reply).

The exact height and width of the vase will also affect price, so measurements (in units other than jif lemons :lol: ) would be helpful.
Title: Info on Mdina Ornament - Axe head?
Post by: joolslee on May 07, 2006, 11:31:54 AM
Wow thank you for that Sue ... I never thought I would get that sig identified and wouldn't have said it said Said in a million years  :D ... I'm still laughing about the lemon measurement comment  :lol:  ... in fact it's 26cm wide x 19cm high and depth varies but 6cm at the thickest part.... it's a very heavy piece!
Thank you so much for all your help!! - Julie
Title: Info on Mdina Ornament - Axe head?
Post by: chopin-liszt on May 07, 2006, 12:47:04 PM
:D:D:D

That is a very substantial size. They do come bigger, but not often. It's not as tall as some, but it's wider than others, if that makes any sense!   The brown ones don't turn up as often as the blue ones. Amethyst ones are even more rare. (There is an amethyst Said signed one on at the moment, huge!)
I suppose what it makes on eBay will depend on the day, but if you list it describing it correctly, with good pictures, it should fly.
You can accurately say that this is the favourite fish design of a major Mdina collector, though!
Title: Info on Mdina Ornament - Axe head?
Post by: joolslee on May 08, 2006, 07:58:33 PM
You were spot on about the signature Sue ... I emailed Mdina and Nevise Said has replied confirming that it is Joseph Said's signature  :)  You know your stuff!!! Thank you again.
Title: Info on Mdina Ornament - Axe head?
Post by: chopin-liszt on May 08, 2006, 08:40:10 PM
:D 8) :D :oops: :D

You're welcome!
Title: Info on Mdina Ornament - Axe head?
Post by: David555 on May 09, 2006, 07:01:08 PM
Hi Sue that is excellent information

I love Mdina and IOW but have limited knowledge (as you know LOL)

I was looking at the very slight information in L Jackson’s 20thc C Factory Glass and some J Millers collectables – I should know by now not to trust this information. Miller 2004 pp272 shows a spade shaped ‘axe-head’ and a ‘fish’ vase with two bubbles in centre (have you got this book, is this still a fish vase?), Miller 2005 pp313 shows a spade shaped ‘axe-head’

I should have looked at J Miller 2006 pp305 which addresses the former attributions with a whole page on the Mdina fish vase showing different shapes including the one above, my apologies for not being thorough enough. You are right about ‘axe-head’ Sue, no mention is made in the 2006 addition – I have sold a few as axe-heads in the distant past, it sounded so Viking LOL

I can only agree about the price guide, I would easily pay that for this rarer brown colour – I see yours has lovely milky iridescent streaks joolslee – very desirable.

Let us know when you put it up for auction



Thanks

Adam P
Title: Info on Mdina Ornament - Axe head?
Post by: joolslee on May 09, 2006, 08:32:12 PM
Hi Adam - well I'm planning to list it on thursday evening after I've posted some better pics on the web page - thank you for taking the time to research your books and the help you gave, it's much appreciated. (And sorry for calling you David in my previous post  :oops: )
Title: Info on Mdina Ornament - Axe head?
Post by: David555 on May 09, 2006, 08:46:55 PM
Hi

You are very kind, but all thanks go to Sue

I will look out for your listing / auction when ever it comes up

The David555 thing came about because there are three other Adams on the board - I always put my real name is Adam P at the bottom of each post, but I agree it is confusing and should change my screen name to Adam P or something


All best

Adam P
Title: Info on Mdina Ornament - Axe head?
Post by: chopin-liszt on May 10, 2006, 08:45:13 AM
:D:D:D

 :lol: Just as long as nobody calls you A. Damp anything!

I've just checked all the references, Adam.

Lesley Jackson's information is all correct. Elizabeth Harris has confirmed this for me.

As far as Miller's guides are concerned, they are only ever published as guides, and this should be remembered every time they are critisised!

Since Mark Hill has been doing the book on Michael Harris and his legacy to glassmaking, he has had access to information previously unavailable. 8)
 
In fact for the last few years, Lesley Jackson has been the only soure of information, and everything else has just been lifted straight out of LJ. As there are no pictures of Mdina in LJ, there has been speculation about what exactly is what. :roll:

Personally, I don't think there ever were really hard and fast rules, LJ says the fish vases produced at Mdina were "flat or faceted and contained richly coloured glass in a thick clear casing." ...and later, with ref. to IoWSG.... "Lollipops (smaller versions of Fish vases)..".

Fish vases were called so because of their resemblence to Manta Rays, when viewed from above.

The picture in Miller's guide 2004 p.272, with the 2 bubbles like eyes, is a vase I would describe as a lollipop. The two bubbles are just a fluke, part of the individual charm of this vase. I have a vase in this design, there is just one bubble, stretched across the centre.

My own convention is to call the ones with strapping between casing applied to both side of the vase, that does not quite join at the top, Fish vases, and the round ones where the casing is complete, Lollipops. This is because I have found big lollipops and wee fishies!

The vase you describe as being spade shaped (Miller's '05) is what I would call a fish or an axehead. (I do use the term axehead). It is the same shape as the one next to the one with the 2 bubbles in '04, but with a different pattern of enamels inside.

Where I am confused is with reference to the multicoloured one on p. 272, (Miller's '04) underneath the fish vase, on the left. I have seen these described as fish vases,  :? but I would call them lollipops because they are fully cased.

Mark's description of these vases as "axeheads" is one I believe is here to stay. Everybody knows what it means.
The information in the '06 guide is with the added knowledge he has gained through researching his book.

 :D   8)  The book is being launched at the next Cambridge Glass Fair, Chilford Hall, Linton on September 24th, '06!  ( www.cambridgeglassfair.com ) 8)  :D
Title: Info on Mdina Ornament - Axe head?
Post by: David555 on May 10, 2006, 02:37:39 PM
Hi Sue

I am looking forward to Mark Hill's book coming out in September. If the Miller 2006 edition section on Mdina was done by him, it makes sense why it is so accurate and informative.

I think this is the way J Miller is going, I know of a few other experts who were brought in as advisers or writers for glass sections. It is for the best. I see it as a price guide but the attributions should be as good as possible.

I understand the whole learning curve thing and I did not mean to sound critical of any individual who has contributed to J Miller Collectables in the past. These books are a big step up from other collectables books

Adam P (sometimes damp) :wink:
Title: Info on Mdina Ornament - Axe head?
Post by: archiveIOWSG on May 11, 2006, 06:43:47 AM
Hi
Thought you might like to know that Mark Hill has a new website http://www.markhillpublishing.com/index.html.

Also I quote an excert from another website soon to be published:

'He is now the resident collectibles specialist for the Judith Miller antiques and collectables books published internationally by DK and also writes a monthly column for Collect It! magazine.'

It seems as though J Miller now has a very good expert on board on Mdina & IOWSG.

David
Title: Info on Mdina Ornament - Axe head?
Post by: Pip on May 11, 2006, 07:40:22 AM
How brilliant!  I've followed the link to Mark Hill Publishing and I'm hugely excited to see there's a publication coming out about Mdina/IOW glass AND a book about West German ceramics <<<rubbing hands together with glee.  So thanks for posting that link, I've already emailed him to reserve a copy of both books and can't wait to receive them.  Pip
Title: Info on Mdina Ornament - Axe head?
Post by: MarkHill on May 16, 2006, 10:19:59 PM
Hello,
What an interesting post to read - it's nice to see Mdina finally receiving the attention it deserves. Thank you Sue too, for passing on such accurate and sensible information.
Firstly, the vase. Yes indeed it is a 'Fish' vase, as you all know by now. That is the proper name. I erroneously called them 'axe heads' in a past edition of the DK Collectables Price Guide by Judith Miller, which I do indeed co-compile and co-write. I called them that at the time (in 2003 I think) as that is what the examples I had seen at the time resembled to me, but the word has such poor, 'violent' resonances, I wish I never had called them that, particularly as it seems to have stuck. Apologies, as it’s my fault - the proper term is and was always 'Fish'. That's what Elizabeth Harris has kindly since told me. I hope my forthcoming book will go some way to correcting this.
As Sue says, the way I have retrained myself too is to think of them as manta rays, particularly the more rounded ones. They come in many different shapes. If I hadn't seen the signature, I'd have been tempted to say this was an early one from the angled form, which appears in a c1970 newspaper ad for Mdina which will feature in my book. However, I have since seen quite a few later (by that I mean after Harris left, so post 1972) examples in that angular form. However, these usually have longer necks than earlier, similarly shaped examples.
The most typical form of early Fish was more rounded, more disc like --- almost. Smaller examples are a different form altogether, but you'll just have to wait for my book to see what I mean by all of this, as a picture speaks a thousand words here! Whatever, the general rule is that more squared off Fish forms date from after Harris left, although the generic Fish design and process was originally his work.
All Fish are cased, 9.7 times out of 10 with clear glass 'wings'.  Lollipops are different. They tend to be much more rounded in profile, like a thick discus with a stalk. They are a different animal altogether. I use the term Lollipop to describe this form (uncased) at the Isle of Wight, and the heavily cased vases Sue speaks of at Mdina - the ones with one, but usually two, internal bubbles (which were indeed intended) and an internal coloured 'waisted' form. Basically, Lollipops to me are more rounded (always) and do not have applied 'wings' at the sides -- note the criss-crossing drips at the centre of Fish vases which are caused by creating the wings. See what I mean about a picture speaking a thousand words!
As regards how this relates to what has been and is shown in the DK Collectables Price Guides by Judith Miller, (the J Miller guides on this forum) thank you once again Sue for speaking common sense. I’ve read quite a few posts here that mention accuracy in our guides. They are indeed meant as guides - as the title itself indicates. Very occasionally errors are made, particularly over 'new' areas such as Mdina, for which I in particular am very, very sorry. With new areas such as this one, it is a learning curve for all of us. As they are annual guides, we are lucky enough to be able to update information for new areas as we learn it and it comes to light.
We always do our very best to accurately describe items, and show the value for that item which is based on the dealer's retail price or the price it made at auction. For information we rely a great amount on the specialists we visit to photograph the items with, who are kind enough to help us with descriptions, attributions and prices. It's not all 'us' and the books are collaborative efforts - nobody is an expert on everything (and those that say they are ought not to be trusted in my opinion!), so we always work as closely as possible with those that are deemed the experts in that area. We also try to always go to people who are genuine and deemed specialists. We can’t go to everyone at the same time for obvious logistical reasons, but hope to able to work our way around as the years progress.
We're always very happy to listen to, and indeed work with, anyone who spots errors or misleading information. Just let us know. If it is a case of someone disagreeing with what a dealer or auction house has said, we’re happy to pass this on. All of this can open a very interesting, educational (as well as often a highly enjoyable) dialogue.
We do also check our work with consultants where we can, and do not just trust something written on a random website, preferring to listen to our contributors, these consultants, and generally trusted sources of information such as Lesley Jackson’s book.
To end this over-long response, please do not think that we don’t care. Judith has been in this business for over 30 years and I have been lucky enough to spend all my working life in different areas of the business. No single person can know everything about everything at once. We try to work with as many specialists and trusted sources as we can to ensure that we provide as accurate information as possible in our guides, and our other books. We love the area we work in and want to ‘get it right’ for the people that buy our books, many of whom may know less than many of us here on this site, and also for our own knowledge.
If we share knowledge that can then be published and disseminated (surely one of the points of this website and many others), then it can only benefit the area as a whole. I don't mean to sound holier than thou, but hope that I am making at least a little sense, albeit in a longwinded manner.
Thanks,
Mark
Title: Info on Mdina Ornament - Axe head?
Post by: MarkHill on May 17, 2006, 01:47:09 PM
Hello again,
Just been made aware of a related 'Fish' piece currently for sale on eBay that  I thought people may want to know about.
The item number is: 7415707402   
The description states clearly that this has been signed by Michael Harris. It is my strong personal opinion that this is not Michael Harris' signature at all, but rather that of Joseph Said. Not only is the signature quite unlike any examples by Harris' that I have ever seen, but the date is too late and the use of what looks like a vibropen is also incorrect. The form is aslo typical of the later, squared off forms that I mentioned above.
Ron Wheeler of Artius Glass, who alerted me to this, also shares my personal opinion and has contacted the vendor.
Not trying to cause trouble, just let people here know my feelings.
Thanks,
Mark
Title: Info on Mdina Ornament - Axe head?
Post by: David E on May 17, 2006, 02:17:13 PM
Mark, the date is one year out - I always thought Michael left in 1972?
Title: Info on Mdina Ornament - Axe head?
Post by: MarkHill on May 17, 2006, 02:28:41 PM
Hi there DeCill,
Yup, you're right, Harris did leave in 1972, so the 1973 date is too late indeed.
Thanks,
Mark
Title: Info on Mdina Ornament - Axe head?
Post by: joolslee on May 17, 2006, 07:47:05 PM
The seller is saying that Michael Harris's signature has been verified by Nevise Said and her emails will be included with the vase.
Title: Info on Mdina Ornament - Axe head?
Post by: David E on May 17, 2006, 07:58:50 PM
Hmm, is it worth someone contacting Nevise Said for confirmation?
Title: Info on Mdina Ornament - Axe head?
Post by: MarkHill on May 18, 2006, 04:17:36 PM
Ugh...this whole thing is annoying. I politely contacted the vendor myself last night and they said that have received quite a few emails, and were understandably upset as they have gone on what Nevise Said had said. I just hope this one goes away soon....they did say that if it didn't sell they would be more than happy to keep it, which may be for the best.
Title: Info on Mdina Ornament - Axe head?
Post by: Della on May 18, 2006, 04:44:58 PM
:shock: Well someone has bid 600 pounds for it  :shock:
Title: Info on Mdina Ornament - Axe head?
Post by: David555 on May 18, 2006, 05:02:30 PM
Strange bidding - two bids by one user name taking it up to £600.00 - can't see bidders buying habbits as last sale was too long ago.

Mmmm something fishy I think (sorry for pun)

Adam P
Title: Info on Mdina Ornament - Axe head?
Post by: David E on May 18, 2006, 05:16:18 PM
Adam: if you decide to increase your initial bid it does appear like that - effectively placing two bids. I don't think this is 'fishy'.

However, please note the comment now on the listing:

Quote
... there are a few very arrogant glass dealers who believe it to be the signature of Joseph Said.

Well, I'm no dealer, or even an avid Mdina collector (wallet, not choice! :lol: ), but even I know that Michael Harris left Mdina in 1972 due to the political situation caused by the Dom Mintoff government of the time.

It simply does not add up but, like Mark, I'm uneasy about interfering with a live auction. But I also believe that in Mark and Sue we have two very knowledgeable Mdina-philes :roll:
Title: Info on Mdina Ornament - Axe head?
Post by: David555 on May 18, 2006, 05:47:41 PM
True David

I am not accusing anyone of anything up front but shill bidding has been known.

In such cases the dealer has a spare account and uses it to pump the price up.

I feel suspicious that the first bidder has put a bid of say over £600.00 in and then shown his cards so early - I mean 3 days still to go!

How many people would place a huge bid against his own 16 seconds after his first bid rather than watch other bidders come in and compete against what is really an unbeatable first bid for this now contentious item.

I also find the bids very interesting along with the timing of the dealer’s protests.

I will be interested to see if the bids are retracted 12 hours before the action ends.

I mean has a anyone been able to contact the bidder and say this is a lot of dosh for a piece with a disputed signature and date? - I have and no response.

These are just observations based on what we have seen on eBay before.

Adam P
Title: Info on Mdina Ornament - Axe head?
Post by: Frank on May 18, 2006, 06:25:16 PM
Quote from: "David555"
How many people would place a huge bid against his own 16 seconds after his first bid rather than watch other bidders come in and compete against what is really an unbeatable first bid for this now contentious item.


At least one other :P if the first bid did not hit reserve.
Title: Info on Mdina Ornament - Axe head?
Post by: David E on May 18, 2006, 08:08:25 PM
Quote
I am not accusing anyone of anything up front but shill bidding has been known.

In such cases the dealer has a spare account and uses it to pump the price up.

Sure, but did you realise the bidder is in the US?

Quote
How many people would place a huge bid against his own 16 seconds after his first bid rather than watch other bidders come in

Admittedly I've never done it that quickly, but I have increased my own proxy bid after reassessing the item. It's rare I do this anyway as I normally snipe :twisted:

But who can tell what people are thinking when they see such a desirable item, albeit with a dubious attribution?

I've now sent the seller the following very conciliatory and diplomatic response.
Quote
Hi,

As you may be aware, this item is currently being discussed on a glass forum. My own view is that as Michael Harris left Malta in 1972, during the Dom Mintoff crisis (Maltese Prime Minister at the time) it really is contentious to attribute it to Michael Harris. Particularly as his widow, Elizabeth (at Isle of Wight Studio Glass), will confirm this, as well as any acknowledged Mdina expert (which I don't claim to be).

I'm sure this is a genuine error by Navise and, as you state, 'We are NOT trying to con or inflate the price of this piece by falcifying facts about signatures' - I appreciate this and after such a long time it is understandable how errors can be made.

But as this is the case, perhaps it would be best not to claim outright that it is _definitely_ Michael Harris, when the weight of evidence says otherwise?

I hope you accept this advice in the spirit it was intended. Please feel free to reply.

I'll let you know if I get a reply.
Title: Info on Mdina Ornament - Axe head?
Post by: David E on May 18, 2006, 08:32:58 PM
And here's the reply...

Quote
Thaks for your message. We have obnly claimed what the makers of the vase have told us.
(sic)
So no nearer to obtaining a resolution! :?

Trouble is, "the makers" are no longer around to support this, so that's inaccurate as well...
Title: Info on Mdina Ornament - Axe head?
Post by: chopin-liszt on May 22, 2006, 01:00:22 PM
:D:D:D

I've been away for a while, and may not be about much in the forseeable near future, so apologies for lack of input at the moment.

BUT:- I see this sold, at the £600.

I see the seller claims that the signature was compared with known Joseph Said signatures, and does not match. :evil:  

It is EXACTLY the same as the 8 known-to-be Joseph Said signatures I have. :twisted:

It is nothing like the signature I suspect to be Paul Said. :twisted:

It is NOTHING like any signature, or handwriting of Michael Harris that I have seen. I do have several examples. :twisted:  :D  8)

I would just like to add to this discussion that I am ALWAYS ready to be corrected on ANYTHING. In any field of research, using the proper scientific definitions of research, information published is only ever "to the best possible current state of knowledge available".

I also know Mark Hill has exactly this attitude. This is one of the reasons I'm so excited about his book, and why I have so much confidence in him as a researcher, as a source of information and as a kindred spirit in loving the glass and wanting it to take it's proper place in Art History.

The sort of misinformation that is going on here is an anathema to us. :cry:
Title: Info on Mdina Ornament - Axe head?
Post by: David555 on May 22, 2006, 03:09:26 PM
I agree with all you have said Sue.

I also think it is a little strange - the auction being without reserve and one bidder basically bidding against themselves (in desperation to get the item :?: ) with such a huge second bid - why not £200.00 and then increase, while others came in.

I have watched other signed Fish vases sell at around that mark with less contention surrounding them.

Hopefully the bidder will have a look at our discussion here, I have seen vases with a proper Harris signature go for a lot less than £600.00 - the 2006 J Miller has one dated 1970 and signed by Harris £300 - £500.

link (http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Huge-Mdina-Axe-Head-Vase-Michael-Harris-Isle-of-Wight_W0QQitemZ7415055784QQcategoryZ64934QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem)                          

Adam P


 :!:  :shock:  :!:  :?  :|
Title: Info on Mdina Ornament - Axe head?
Post by: Frank on May 23, 2006, 12:40:13 PM
I just got a mail from the seller accusing me of contacting the bidder! Cheek. Presumably they have realised the sig is wrong. Anyway I told them I had not.
Title: Info on Mdina Ornament - Axe head?
Post by: David E on May 23, 2006, 12:41:50 PM
Ha, me too! :roll:

I'm wondering if the seller renaged?

EDIT: "reneged"  :roll:
Title: Info on Mdina Ornament - Axe head?
Post by: Frank on May 23, 2006, 01:36:18 PM
Probably the seller bought it with faked emails as provenance and did not verify before listing. Appears to be general seller.
Title: Info on Mdina Ornament - Axe head?
Post by: chopin-liszt on May 23, 2006, 03:41:20 PM
:D:shock::D

This vase has been listed twice before. The information changed with each listing, before the seller said they contacted Mdina to enquire.  :?
Title: Info on Mdina Ornament - Axe head?
Post by: Weebeeglass on May 23, 2006, 07:51:20 PM
Hello all you Mdina Avids and pother informed and knowledgable collectors,
Now up until this moment I have remained removed from this discussion. Some of you may know me and also know my background and history so I just thougt you may like to know that we have been in a very lengthy  and from their side  not very nice two way discussion, nay dispute, over the description of this piece. There are still many unanswered and even contentious question marks over the aswers and information, given by the  the seller, to your questions  but that is another issue for another day as  I know they have been following this thread. Suffice it to say at this stage that there are possibly certain Trading Standard issues which may have to be addressed but I have said enough on that part now. However many of you are on the right lines but do not of course have the full unhappy story to date. Now that the item is sold if you would like some bedtime reading I can forward you the saga to serve as a Caveat Emptor. Ask Mark Hill privately by email about my credentials if you want some background and I will forward you the emails over this issue as I now feel you are all, as keen collectors, entitled to know. Look up our website at www.artiusglass.co.uk also. I am always pleased to enter into any amount of discussion with you on an email basis but tend to try not to air my washing in public as it can be used by the unscrupulous - well if it is contentious anyway. Mark, Angela and others know me well enough to verify that I only have the best interests of the Harris 'dynasty' at heart and will defend their honour to the death! ( well to the bitter end of a ' Heated Debate' anyway !). They are still, and have been, a big part of my business life since the early eighties.
Very best regards,
Ron & Ann Wheeler
Artius glass