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Glass Discussion & Research. NO IDENTIFICATION REQUESTS here please. => Scandinavian Glass => Topic started by: Bill G on July 11, 2005, 10:09:12 AM

Title: future glass antiques
Post by: Bill G on July 11, 2005, 10:09:12 AM
Skruv Glasbruk mgt. has asked me to design new tableware - serving dishes.

I am under contract with this company having designed
two vases and a stemware set.

Everyone always says, ask your potential customer what they want. Your thoughts on shape, size, color,
decor - art deco, modernism, etc. would be appreciated.
Bill Geary
Title: future glass antiques
Post by: Anne E.B. on July 11, 2005, 12:56:26 PM
Wow - how exciting Bill!  I personally would like something really cutting edge and modern.  Something totally different and ground breaking with perhaps really unusual shapes and textures so that a serving dish is not just a functional item but a piece of art also.  Too often things like this get put away in cupboards out of sight.  I must also admit to liking very vivid colours.  
Hope to see your designs in the not to distant future 8)
Regards - Anne :wink:
Title: future glass antiques
Post by: chopin-liszt on July 11, 2005, 01:09:04 PM
:D I have to confess to being very impressed with my Denby "Baroque" dinner service, on the grounds of the colours, being dark blues, are not a food related colour, so are in contrast to anything served on them, the inner part of the plates is plain white, and the plates are large, so that the food shows nicely against the white, without getting mixed up with the border. Not a very original suggestion I suppose, but as I take food as seriously as glass, I want the food to be presented as well as possible, complementing the dish, not in competition with it. :D
Title: future glass antiques
Post by: Ivo on July 11, 2005, 02:30:42 PM
From my kitchen experience I implore you: inverse stackability. Please make something that can be stacked in an upper kitchen cabinet and which can be retrieved without danger: the current situation is that the larger serving plates are invariably weighed down by a stack of smaller serving plates. If you need the larger one, you have to remove the whole stack - and this can be a dangerous procedure.
Title: Future Antiques
Post by: Bill G on July 14, 2005, 06:28:13 PM
I wanted to thank the following individuals for taking time from their busy schedules to reply to my request.
Anne B
Chopin Liszt
Ivo.
The ideas provided are very much appreciated.
Title: future glass antiques
Post by: Max on July 14, 2005, 07:24:26 PM
Bill

I was going to reply to your posting, but thought my ideas in tableware veer towards the classical and plain, and that didn't seem terribly ground-breaking or interesting.   :D

My only REAL pet hate is octagonal shaped plates (my apologies to anyone with them  :oops: ) the only shape for a plate is circular!!  :wink:
Title: future glass antiques
Post by: Anne on July 14, 2005, 08:40:14 PM
Bill, I also didn't comment earlier as I wanted to have a longer think about this.

For me, the most valuable feature of any item is its versatility, so items that may be used for more than one purpose are appreciated: e.g. in both serving and storing food and to be fridge safe.

For serving I also love divided dishes - being able to put multiple things in the same serving dish makes less to carry to the table, and takes up less space on the table and in the cupboard.

I endorse Ivo's inverse stackability suggestion - no-one ever seems to have enough cupboard space!  Plates - I like oval and "rounded corner square" plates as well, I think the latter are especially practical in terms of space usage on the table.

Designs with lots of decoration can fight with the look of the food, so plain is better, letting the shape enhance the presented item, and the colour needs to be something on which all types of food with look good. (Imagine purple plates with carrots or sweetcorn on and you have a horrible garish mixture IMHO!)

Hope this may help a little. I look forward to seeing your end products also.
Title: future glass antiques
Post by: aa on July 16, 2005, 10:50:39 AM
Quote from: "Anne"

For me, the most valuable feature of any item is its versatility, so items that may be used for more than one purpose are appreciated: e.g. in both serving and storing food and to be fridge safe.

For serving I also love divided dishes - being able to put multiple things in the same serving dish makes less to carry to the table, and takes up less space on the table and in the cupboard.


In this supermarket age we are all prone to eating prepared foods as we're  invariably short of time, so I concur with Anne's comments.

Although being different per se is not necessarily a good USP, I've noticed that most manufacturers have tended to stick with a  "more of the same" policy.

A few weeks ago someone posted a thread showing some 50's Electrolux fridge glass that was extremely practical, but not very attractive.

What about upgrading that concept and working on a fridge to table to fridge basis. So when you come back from the supermarket, you tip all your purchases out  of the plastic containers into glass containers that you can keep in the fridge but take straight to the table? Just a thought.

Good luck with it and congratulations! :D
Title: future glass antiques
Post by: chopin-liszt on July 16, 2005, 11:43:49 AM
:D:D:D
So something with snap-on tupperware style plastic, dishwasher-able covers? Difficult to fit in with stackability, perhaps, but an ingenious solution could be used incorporated as an aesthetic design feature!

Failing that, the dishes could be designed to fit on top of each other, one as base, one as lid, again, something ingenious and aesthetic!

Gosh - this is getting to be quite exciting!! 8)8)8):D
Title: future glass antiques
Post by: Leni on July 16, 2005, 12:07:57 PM
Quote from: "chopin-liszt"
the dishes could be designed to fit on top of each other, one as base, one as lid, again, something ingenious and aesthetic!

My pyrex casserole dishes do just this, but are very plain and funtional.  I would love a varient on this theme which was 'prettier'.  
I agree about colours clashing with food, but I prefer coloured to plain glass, except when it's textured glass.   :roll:  So how about a coloured rim or a bit of colour somewhere, just not too much so it distracts from what's in the dishes?   :D

A serving dish / bowl I am using a lot at the moment (for salads or fruit salad) is clear glass, but textured on the outside, and an interesting shape.  It's shaped like an apple, and the handle is the stalk.  It's a bit twee, but it's very useful.  Doesn't stack with anything at all, though   :(  Handles should be shaped or positioned so that they don't interfere with the stackability.

Divided dishes are good, but they tend to be either oval or oblong - boring!  :roll:  How about a different shape?  Round or square but divided would be different.  Or what about a divided dish with one end larger and one end smaller - sort of pear-shaped?   :shock:

Now I'm getting excited, too!   :D  :D  :D

Leni
Title: future glass antiques
Post by: chopin-liszt on July 16, 2005, 12:19:05 PM
:D I know those apple dishes, Leni!
 I found out they're French, Arcoroc.
Title: future glass antiques
Post by: Frank on July 16, 2005, 02:10:45 PM
Oven to table and fridge to table are vital in ouir modern age, square with near- straight sides is good for space in ever more cramped fridges - but NO plastic lids please!

The lids could double as plates. Although not so good for when the leftovers

Lots of colour at the edges at least and perhaps some aventurine too (Monart serving dishes :lol: )

Sets of four all the same size would be great, one always has to buy sets in 3 different sizes and while the stack ok, one invariably wants three of the bigger size or three of the smaller size... sets of four would be better for fridge sets.
Title: future glass antiques
Post by: Anne on July 16, 2005, 08:03:01 PM
Agree with Frank, no plastic lids please. :) I also agree that same size sets are good. I have nested sets of dishes of which I hardly ever use the smaller ones, but always need extras of the bigger ones.  :roll:
Title: future glass antiques
Post by: Anne on July 16, 2005, 08:16:45 PM
Quote from: "Leni"
I agree about colours clashing with food, but I prefer coloured to plain glass, except when it's textured glass.   :roll:  So how about a coloured rim or a bit of colour somewhere, just not too much so it distracts from what's in the dishes?   :D Leni


I love coloured glass as well Leni, I just am not too keen on bright colours clashing with the contents. :lol:  Plain clear glass has its place, but can be a tad boring. Some of my favourite serving dishes are the blue Pyrex type ones, which don't seem clash with anything. They're also a good size and hold enough to feed hungry teenagers!!! :)

Quote from: "Leni"

Divided dishes are good, but they tend to be either oval or oblong - boring!  :roll:  How about a different shape?  Leni


Flower shaped? Circular with apses where the petals are, if you follow what I mean. Much more interesting than plain round or oval ones.
Title: future glass antiques
Post by: chopin-liszt on July 17, 2005, 12:59:12 AM
:D Hello again,

Personally, I don't like silly shapes for eating from. Food seems to stay better on round plates, (maybe I'm just a messy eater :oops: ) but you said it was serving dishes you were to design!

One thought I've had is that more and more people are using very big deep bowls, which are extremely useful for all sorts of things. Bowls deeper than pasta bowls and holding a bit more than pasta bowls - something along the lines of Chinese rice bowls, that would hold a whole meal in them. I think more and more people are doing stir-fry stuff, and these big bowls are good for that, but they could also be used as serving dishes.

I actually use all three sizes of bowls and all three sizes of flat plates of my service, all the time. It's the serving dishes that I don't use so often, but then, there are only the two of us, so I just serve everything straight onto our plates. :D

:twisted: You're going to have to get a big bit of paper and some coloured pencils and try to make some sort of sense out of all these ideas! :twisted: :wink:
Title: future glass antiques
Post by: Jo in Australia on July 17, 2005, 01:14:03 AM
I'd quite like a big platter for serving antipasto. I'd like one that had ripples rather than deep divisions... so that it would look good even if there wasn't a lot of food on it, but the different flavours would be kept separate. Colour-wise I think it could be a bit adventurous because a serving plate can be more of a feature than the plates you eat off.
I love the idea of it having Monart colours... or WMF... or...  :)
Jo
Title: future glass antiques
Post by: Bernard C on July 17, 2005, 03:46:23 AM
Bill — I have two suggestions.

1. Washupability.

We have several badly designed items in our kitchen that cause us considerable aggravation as they are impossible to leave to dry without producing limescale rings somewhere.   Whatever you design, I suggest that you test it on a flat surface and a draining rack to see if you can place it in such a way that all the rinsing water drains off it.   If you can't, I suggest you redesign it.

2. Retail v. Catering Suppliers.

I have little confidence in the ability of the great British public to choose tableware, and I am sure that applies to the public in many other countries.   Accordingly I suggest you initially ignore retailers and concentrate on commercial catering trade suppliers for basic shape and size ideas.    At least you can be sure that these designs actually work!

You can then add your own individual design and style to the basics.

I hope that helps.

Bernard C.  8)
Title: future glass antiques
Post by: Anne on July 19, 2005, 08:21:51 AM
But that's far better than no response at all Peter!  :lol:
Title: future glass antiques
Post by: chopin-liszt on July 19, 2005, 08:43:36 AM
:lol:
First, Bill has to take each idea, which gets put as a heading, with a list of pro's and con's for each, in order to weigh up it's validity, then he is going to need a large sheet of paper and some coloured crayons to make diagrams, with the ideas in boxes, and arrows pointing between them in order to make sense of it all. It's called brainstorming. I'm sure very useful information will come out of it all. Not only that, but it's really good fun to do! :D
More ideas are needed!!
Title: future glass antiques
Post by: Frank on July 19, 2005, 11:01:04 AM
How about square straight sided bowls in the form of interlocking jigsaw puzzle pieces with variations, 3 prongs - 1 hole, 2 prongs - 2 holes, ditto prongs at right angles, 3 holes 1 prong, 4 holes... etc.

Then a wall bracket with two downward pointing prongs and an up hole.

The bowls are then hung from the bracket and you can always take one off without disturbing the others. Sell as sets of six with bracket.

Each a different colour and it is up to the purchaser to use as a sculpture or serving bowls :D
Title: future glass antiques
Post by: Anne E.B. on July 19, 2005, 11:17:41 AM
Quote from: "Frank"
How about square straight sided bowls in the form of interlocking jigsaw puzzle pieces with variations, 3 prongs - 1 hole, 2 prongs - 2 holes, ditto prongs at right angles, 3 holes 1 prong, 4 holes... etc.


Love the idea of them also forming a multi-coloured sculpture Frank.  Hate the idea of them being shut away out of sight in a cupboard.  8)  However, I'm going potty drawing pictures of what I think you mean.  :twisted:  Just about to reach for my scissors and cardboard doh!  Good job I'm a Graduate of the Blue Peter School and can now make a model of the Sydney Opera House out of lollipop sticks and empty milk cartons! :wink:
Anne :lol:
Title: future glass antiques
Post by: Leni on July 19, 2005, 11:30:11 AM
Quote from: "Frank"
How about square straight sided bowls in the form of interlocking jigsaw puzzle pieces with variations, 3 prongs - 1 hole, 2 prongs - 2 holes, ditto prongs at right angles, 3 holes 1 prong, 4 holes... etc.

 :shock: I can hear the argument starting already!   :shock:

"Fetch me the 3 prong 1 hole bowl, please."

"No, you idiot!  That's the 1 prong 3 hole!"  

"Do you mean the pink 3 hole 1 prong, or the green 3 prong 1 hole?"

"No, no!  the green has 4 holes and 2 prongs!  Are you blind?"

"Sorry, I thought that was the 2 prong 4 hole!"

"That's the blue one, stupid!"

"Oh, get the **** bowl yourself!"  

 :lol:  :roll:

Leni
Title: future glass antiques
Post by: Bernard C on July 19, 2005, 11:32:43 AM
As EVERYTHING has to be fitted with cupholders nowadays (my computer has one which slides out when you press any one of several buttons), Frank's idea is particularly brilliant as you could use the sticky out bits as dip or condiment holders.   They would also sell well in the upmarket pet trade for both watering and feeding cats/dogs.

If you add up Peter's numbers and later additions, I see we are getting close to 42 — the answer to life, the universe, and everything.

Bernard C.  8)
Title: future glass antiques
Post by: paradisetrader on July 19, 2005, 05:20:05 PM
IMHO designers need to lead ... if they come up with well thought out designs which are practical the public will buy....eventually.
In the short term the buying public are too easily swayed by decoration and fashion. They only learn functional shortcommings after purchase and use. It's the designers job to think about that before hand.
But...............
Quote
More ideas are needed!!

OK then I vote :

Serving dishes
...in a variety of shapes according to use (ie oblongish for Lasagne, Spanakopita, round for Cauli Cheese etc. etc)

General attributes
a) Oven, Microwave, Freezer, Dishwasher proof .
b) No sharp edges or corners
c) Textured externally but with texture disappearing towards the rim of serving dishes so that spills over the edge don't get stuck in the grooves.
OR internal desings with glass fiber
d) Vented, slotted lids for excess steam and stay-put draining  
e) Knobbled insert trays for microwave steaming
f) Clear glass - They will transmit whatever color is beneath. Want white ? use white tablecloth or place mats (US coasters). Want black ? - use black rubber (Max control yourself)
 
Dining Service
1)Oval (rounded oblong) rimless plates with a shallow even gradient towards a sous-plateau centre so that gravy and sauces stay where they are supposed to.
2) Medium sized shallow bowls for stir-fry's and pastas  
(about the size of Leni's Denby)
3) Slim Salad "trays" to lie along the top of the plate so that salad takes a central place on the table and in the diet. These can double as corn-on-cob dishes and whole trout platters.
4) Pear dishes large enough for large Avo's and large poached pears
with shaped base for smaller pears.
5) Lidded & handled soup bowls for mircowave warming - no messey geysers caked to microwave walls.
6) Shallow desert dishes to make portions look more generous but deep enough to double for individually baked lasagnas, pies, puddings etc.
7) Sectioned TV supper trays to slot into wooden lap tray.....Lidded for "your dinner's in the microwave" re-heats.
8) Just shorter than pencil pot size containers for Cruditees Jardineres. The pieces stand upright.
9) Rim level handles for style, ease of carrying and ease of molding.
Thumb & finger depessions above and below for gripability.

No huge salad bowls
- Too space hungry
- large leaf salads and tossing = yesteryear
Small leaves are in and drizzle is the new toss

Instead  (if you must) a Chunky Salad Tower (smaller footprint) with grabber tongs for extracting desired pieces to be drizzled en assiette. Can double as chip (UK crisps) tower for chips n dips.

Stackable dip dishes and other larger containers with plastic lids for immediate return to fridge. Less washing up = ecofriendly.

Inverse Stackability ???? Use wire plate separators !
Just a few thoughts.......................
Title: future glass antiques
Post by: Frank on July 19, 2005, 06:03:18 PM
Quote from: "paradisetrader"
...with plastic lids for immediate return to fridge. Less washing up = ecofriendly.


 :o

What is wrong with glass lids, can go straight in the fridge. Doesn't need to be washed as the surface is non-absobent so you just leave the old food to dry and scrape it off and use on your vegetable windowbox. = totally ecofriendly
 :twisted:
Title: future glass antiques
Post by: Leni on July 19, 2005, 07:02:42 PM
Quote from: "paradisetrader"
Medium sized shallow bowls for stir-fry's and pastas  
(about the size of Leni's Denby)

In case you're puzzled Sue, (and any others who noticed the previous references to our Denby dinner services) my stir-fry / pasta bowls are Denby 'Storm' as they didn't make pasta bowls in the days of 'Baroque', and IMHO the purple version of 'Storm' goes with 'Baroque' quite well   :D

Quote
- large leaf salads and tossing = yesteryear
Small leaves are in and drizzle is the new toss

 :shock: Ooh Peter, you have such a turn of phrase!  :roll:  :wink:  :lol:

Lots of great design ideas!  I agree with you on many / most!  

Leni  xx
Title: future glass antiques
Post by: Anne on July 19, 2005, 10:06:51 PM
Peter said
Quote
Spanakopita


Is this a food or a place...???  I'm sure it's not served in wildest Cumbria!  :shock:

... and later Peter also said
Quote
drizzled en assiette


... if my assiette ever drizzles there'll be trouble for sure!  :roll:
Title: future glass antiques
Post by: chopin-liszt on July 19, 2005, 10:47:55 PM
:D :? :? :?  You have confused me Leni! -  I thought I had Baroque pasta dishes! :shock:
(The 8.5" wide, including rim, 1.5"deep ones).

I was thinking, however, of something the same diameter, but deeper as the suggestion.

I also have a huge (12" diameter, no rim, 3.5 "high dish) which I also thought was a pasta dish. If these are not pasta dishes, what are they???  :? :? :?  

The problem with oblong plates (as well as things skidding off the narrow sides) is room on the table. If they're big enough to hold dinner comfortably, they're too big for the table. Round is best.

All of Frank's things with prongs sound interesting, but the prongs will break off.
How do they fit into the dishwasher?
Glass topped things will not form a seal the way a plastic top will. No good for the 'fridge/freezer.
Title: future glass antiques
Post by: Anne on July 19, 2005, 10:52:24 PM
Quote
Glass topped things will not form a seal the way a plastic top will. No good for the 'fridge/freezer.


Glass with a rubber seal perhaps, Sue? a la Kilner jar idea...
Title: future glass antiques
Post by: chopin-liszt on July 19, 2005, 11:15:46 PM
:D A pain in the dishwasher, and too many fiddly bits/crevaces for germs to breed in. I don't see any practical way around this. Nice try, though!
Plastic tops wouldn't take up nearly so much room either.
Title: future glass antiques
Post by: Bill G on July 24, 2005, 11:22:02 AM
What can I say but wow, the creativity of the group has no end. Your ideas and thoughts have brought out two or three issues not previously thought about.
THANK YOU AGAIN TO ALL WHO PARTICIPATED.
Of course, the group will be advised of the results of my
discussions with the glass works.
Title: future glass antiques
Post by: Frank on July 24, 2005, 11:44:15 AM
A credit to the GMB on the packaging would be nice too :)
Title: future glass antiques
Post by: chopin-liszt on August 21, 2005, 09:35:13 AM
:D Hello Bill,
Have you seen this reference somebody else put up? I thought of you and this thread when I saw it.
The service has only been used once, and even then, not all of it!!!

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=7343161622&rd=1&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWA%3AIT&rd=1

Also, have you seen that all authors who contribute to the board are invited to list their publications, with ISBNs, and where to buy them, in a sticky at the top of the market place?
Title: future glass antiques
Post by: Frank on January 04, 2006, 09:26:45 PM
Bill,

Any progress?