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Glass Discussion & Research. NO IDENTIFICATION REQUESTS here please. => British & Irish Glass => Topic started by: Gary on June 09, 2011, 08:30:11 PM

Title: Monart herringbone decoration ?
Post by: Gary on June 09, 2011, 08:30:11 PM
I bought this Monart DF shape bowl at my local auction house, what I would like to know, is this type of decoration known as "herringbone". The bottom half is clear glass and white graduating to pink and clear glass with gold aventurine. The coloured spirals start from the centre of the bowl and finish at the rim and criss cross each other.
Gary
Title: Re: Monart herringbone decoration ?
Post by: Frank on June 09, 2011, 09:39:24 PM
Basically yes, see here http://www.ysartglass.com/Moncat/PageStyles.htm but note the style was not named herringbone.

But you certainly got a delightful and very rare piece there.
Title: Re: Monart herringbone decoration ?
Post by: Gary on June 10, 2011, 04:12:24 PM
Thanks Frank for the quick reply and info. The bonus was it only cost £120 (hammer price), with a catalogue estimate of £200-£300. A small problem I have, is how to display it to it's best, as it is fairly large bowl at 33.5cm wide. Any ideas would be appreciated.
Gary
Title: Re: Monart herringbone decoration ?
Post by: Frank on June 10, 2011, 11:39:35 PM
As it is shown is the best way. Big bowls are a real beggar to display but with something as good as this you have a real centre point for your collection. There are few pieces you will ever find that can out 'look' such a piece and if you have a main display, try and set it central and with a LED white spotlight on it. I am amazed you got it so cheaply, at 300 it was a bargain, as I would put into the top ten of Monart I have seen, and I have seen a lot. Must have been a bad day for thye auctioneers and a great day for Gary! Well done laddie! :sc: :sc: :sc: :sc: :sc:
Title: Re: Monart herringbone decoration ?
Post by: millarart on June 16, 2011, 11:29:01 AM
Hi Gary,
           nice piece, any chance of a picture of the pontil, colour looks very Perthshire Paperweights, i have bowls and vases in this colourway
Title: Re: Monart herringbone decoration ?
Post by: Gary on June 16, 2011, 08:32:05 PM
Hi Gary here is a photo of pontil, not a very good and is the best after many attempts. I will try and discribe it, the outer base rim is polished smooth the pontil mark is concaved smooth with none of the original pontil left. Not unlike the mark an ice cream scoop leaves in the ice cream.
I have N shaped vase with a post war label that is coloured in the same shade of white and pink.
Gary
Title: Re: Monart herringbone decoration ?
Post by: millarart on June 16, 2011, 09:28:38 PM
i take it thats its a concave pontil, i have a few P/Ps bowls same shape with stripes in same colourway, have to look them out and take pics to post, they are very similar, ive been away from Ysart glass for around 4 to 6 years, cant really remember now, seem to have got the bug again in the last few weeks, i used to be more into my lamps and unusal pieces but sold about 35 lamps over the last three years mostly private, ranging from tulips to mushrooms and pedestal lamps, still have around 20 i suppose that ive kept with a few rare examples, might look them out sometime and take some pics,
Title: Re: Monart herringbone decoration ?
Post by: Frank on June 17, 2011, 12:44:53 AM
Ah! PP that never occurred to me. Would certainly make senses of the unusual colours. I had no idea Chic Young used dip moulds. Could you count the number of lines in each direction please Gary. And Gary (Millarart) can you count any examples you have. Chances are this would prove the case as Chic would be unlikely to have had the original Monart dip moulds. Of course chance could result in the same number  :thud:
Title: Re: Monart herringbone decoration ?
Post by: millarart on June 17, 2011, 01:39:07 PM
frank i will if i can find them, put most of my glass in storage as Adele was moaning about it taking over the house  :ho:, all of it is bubble wrapped and boxed, didnt have the brains like i used to and write a list to stick to box like i used to back in my ysart buying days, and have so many boxes so might not be for a long time yet, think i have around 60 to 70 P/Ps pieces all different colourways per shape (no two same shape has same colourway), i will ask Keith as well :phew:
Title: Re: Monart herringbone decoration ?
Post by: Frank on June 17, 2011, 11:23:53 PM
...Adele was moaning about it taking over the house  :ho:, ...

That is what it is supposed to do duuuh!  :thud: :wsh:
Title: Re: Monart herringbone decoration ?
Post by: millarart on June 18, 2011, 05:35:42 AM
That is what it is supposed to do duuuh!  :thud: :wsh:
oh but it did, at one point it took over ours , my mas and my grans :sc:
Title: Re: Monart herringbone decoration ?
Post by: chopin-liszt on June 18, 2011, 09:25:28 AM
I think Michael's given up a bit on the "putting it away" lark. He put up all my sitting room shelves - I got some glass on them, then, naturally, started filling up all the space created. He bought me crates and bubble-wrap (he'd thrown out all the stuff I'd collected), I packed them up, they were put away, and naturally, started filling up all the space this created........ nature hates a vacuum.
Title: Re: Monart herringbone decoration ?
Post by: Gary on June 18, 2011, 11:31:23 AM
There is 20 lines of the shorter vertical and 19 or 20 :-\ of the longer spiral lines.
Gary
Title: Re: Monart herringbone decoration ?
Post by: Frank on June 18, 2011, 03:12:58 PM
Probably both 20, would have used the same mould for both sets of lines. But on this case it is not useful to distinguish maker  :-\

http://www.glassmessages.com/index.php/topic,10140.0.html
Title: Re: Monart herringbone decoration ?
Post by: Gary on November 07, 2013, 09:56:10 PM
Hi Gary,
           nice piece, any chance of a picture of the pontil, colour looks very Perthshire Paperweights, i have bowls and vases in this colourway
Ah! PP that never occurred to me. Would certainly make senses of the unusual colours. I had no idea Chic Young used dip moulds.
The link below takes you to an Ian Turner  Monart piece which has the same decoration and colours as my DF bowl. Also I have Monart vase (post war) in the same colours.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Unusual-possibly-unique-Monart-Vase-/331058503880?pt=UK_Art_
Gary
Title: Re: Monart herringbone decoration ?
Post by: millarart on November 17, 2013, 08:37:25 PM
as soon as I saw the vase ian put on ebay the first thing that came to mind is Perthshire aswell, colourways mean nothing as I have several pieces of Perthshire that the colours look same as monart, im still sure that your bowl and the vase ian sold are Perthshire and not monart
Title: Re: Monart herringbone decoration ?
Post by: millarart on November 17, 2013, 08:42:36 PM
oh and even ian wasn't sure if his was Monart, and that's saying something coming from a guy who had thousands of pieces through his hands, am sticking to Perthshire, whaen I was in chic youngs house years ago doing the article that's on ysart glass site on chic young himself he had several pieces of Perthshire with applied feet and in colourways that I still havent came across myself yet all these years later, and I have nearing 100 pieces of Perthshire and my mate around half of that ,
Title: Re: Monart herringbone decoration ?
Post by: chopin-liszt on November 17, 2013, 08:48:55 PM
There must have been a mould capable of forming ribs at, or borrowed by Strathearn, if this helps in any way at all. ;D

I bought a large, clear yellow Strathearn bowl with optic ribbing a couple of years ago.
(I'm not even sure I didn't post it here, given optic ribbing is rather unusual in Ysart glass.  ???)

I gave it to my brother, but I do have pics somewhere, so the ribs can be counted. I will look a pic out and come back with it later.
Title: Re: Monart herringbone decoration ?
Post by: millarart on November 17, 2013, 09:10:18 PM
yeah I seen your piece sue but yours was ribbed which you could feel these pieces are striped but not raised
Title: Re: Monart herringbone decoration ?
Post by: chopin-liszt on November 18, 2013, 07:39:29 PM
I've just found the pics - but it's hard to tell how many ribs.

Would it have been a similar mould used to add stripes as to make ribs?

The mould would add the shape - but further blowing and working could make it turn out quite different in a finished piece.

I'm just very curious about any info. with regard to any moulds used or not. It has always seemed odd to me that I've only ever seen this one bit of optic moulded Ysart glass - even if it is as late as Strathearn (my favourite Ysart glass)
Title: Re: Monart herringbone decoration ?
Post by: KevinH on November 19, 2013, 01:28:29 AM
Would it have been a similar mould used to add stripes as to make ribs?
Not sure if it applies to all such usage but generally, I think the same mould would be used to produce either ribs or stripes. The difference being that, for stripes, the colours would be marvered to a a smooth finish rather than being left as obvious ribs.
Title: Re: Monart herringbone decoration ?
Post by: Gary on May 13, 2015, 09:44:28 PM
as soon as I saw the vase ian put on ebay the first thing that came to mind is Perthshire aswell, colourways mean nothing as I have several pieces of Perthshire that the colours look same as monart, im still sure that your bowl and the vase ian sold are Perthshire and not monart
I have just purchased an other Monart DF shape bowl/charger in the same colourway, but with a post war label.
The colours in this image are a truer representation of the colours compared to the previous image ,earlier in the post.
Gary
Title: Re: Monart herringbone decoration ?
Post by: millarart on May 13, 2015, 10:30:58 PM
very nice , good to have the label
Title: Re: Monart herringbone decoration ?
Post by: orangeglass on May 14, 2015, 07:39:58 PM
way to go Gary - nice one!  :)
Title: Re: Monart herringbone decoration ?
Post by: Gary on May 18, 2015, 08:01:30 PM
very nice , good to have the label
Cheers the label helps to put a date on the bowl.
way to go Gary - nice one!  :)
Thanks Roberta, I am well pleased with it.
Gary